Bugs or Gods?

I would like to see some Gigers ideas used, he originally had the idea the Derelict was a living ship and it actually produced the Eggs.. What if the true creator at the top of the Hierarchy was in fact a gigantic Bio-Mechanical Machine or indeed some twisted Giger Cathedral or Citadel where at the center is the brain and true creator? Could that work? Ridley had hinted that David could unleash Hell on Paradise as he is bringing Hell with him (Goo?) and pondered what would happen if the Goo infected God? or even a Robot?

Yeah I really think that the Giger ALien in ALIEN was meant to be ALMOST indestructible. It brings me back to that ASH line "Perfect lifeform." Created to be killing machines NOT target practice for soldiers! In ALIENS they were nothing more than easy to kill animals, with the message that us humans can overcome any adversary and then we go to the Brady Bunch ending with everybody joining hands and singing "We are the world." TUT So, thanx to the sequels the Giger Alien became not so scary and almost comical, thanx to FOX of course.

Let me make this clear: the xenomorph is just one creature in the wider alien/ predator/ prometheus universe. It is a troglodyte, a cave dweller. It is not a deity, okay?

Yeah I agree with that it was mostly indestructible in the first Alien. In the second movie it did make sense in the fact that the USMC Marines had guns and grenades. The first movie all they had were stunning rods and torches. Hicks had that bad*ss pump shotgun and blew alway that alien that was trying to get into the APC.

It should be a deity, it's supposed to squash all other fictional creatures in every manner.

We have to remember what kind of attack did the Alien Xeno come across? Look at Alien 3 we could say like Alien one this Alien was one BSOB! We could have had Mike Tyson lose on the Nostramo in a fit of rage and see him take out all the crew, would that mean Mike Tyson was indestructible? My point being we never got to see the Alien shot point blank with a futuristic military shot gun, so we can not be sure what the outcome would have been. Yes Fifield took a fair amount of Damage so i agree the Xeno in Aliens was not as tough, but it does not make the Alien one near unstoppable. Also likewise a well aimed shot gun shot in Fifields head we would assume would put a stop to him.

Ridley gave I clue I reckon about his god like being which is not the creator god of this universe mearley just way more advanced than even the elders. I have always thought the black goo is from this being and it is the god like being - there is only one and only the real original one has mega intelligence and is not nice according to ridley. The xenos are mearley off shoots and are just the way its absorbs new traits / abilities to evolve. Maybe the engineers came across the goo thinking it was the creator / gods but they were wrong :p .

They shot Fitfield about four or five times in the cranium and ran over him twice. The Alien was always meant to supernatural and Godlike. And thank God (Not an intentional pun) Ridley Scott is bringing it back to that kind of feeling.

@djamelameziane Yes this is something i have thought about as well..... In that the Prometheus is the Engineer Race and Elders and the Fire is the Goo and they have ultimately stolen this fire and got burnt by it.

You are just deluding yourself. The xenomorph is nothing but a giant animal with sharp claws, fangs, and tail.

Yes dave I reckon there will be multiple levels to it in that sense. I am hoping the elders are way more advanced than the engineers and possibly we see other races above that with the god like thing way above them all. Alpha : ridley has hinted at all this already but i know it could change. But I am pretty sure they will be one of two things - extremely advanced evolution without technology or an off shoot of the 'god like thing' . Either way pretty sure we will find this out as it progresses.

Well we have to remember the Ancient Culture references are no mistake, they are for a reason including the Bible..... Ridley referred to Engineers as Angels and that on LV 223 as Dark Angels, does that mean the ones at the start and the Elder scene as being Angels and thus LV 223 as Evil Fraction? Now i dont think we will be going 100% the Bible route, i think we will see many links to many other religions and cultures and then to show that all these are connected as different interpretations of the Engineers and Elders. Thus if we take the Anunnaki tale, they created Igigi as a servent race, then Mankind latter and the Igigi revolted against the Anunnaki and i think they could go similar route here. Could be we see the Elders as the Anunnaki and Engineers as Igigi? And that the Engineers are a creation made to serve and perform tasks for the Elders.. like Sacrifices and also to be left to attend to the Bio Weapons and Cargo Ships? Also the Bible has Giants as being off spring of Angels and Female Humans, now again this could play into Paradise as we could see the Elders create a Hybrid of Engineer and Human to make taller Engineers and thus Space Jockeys could the Space Jockey be the Nephilim from the Bible? Now our LV 223 Engineers could be same as Goliath and the Space Jockey same as Og of Bashan? So these Ancient religions do have differences, we have Angels who are described as not being that tall, as far as giants we have giants who stand 8-10ft and others who stand 10-15ft so why cant Ridley explain this is the case with the Engineers that one set can stand 7-10ft and another 10-15ft? But as far as who created the Elders, Engineers and Space Jockeys well i think that is left open and i think Ridley could go for something outside of the box....

I am not deluding myself, I said "meant" so you could say it is based upon the first film, Ridley even wanted the Alien to win but Fox wouldn't allow it. It's sequels prove otherwise, but yet there is something "beautifully eerie" about them just as there is about the Engineers now. That's the exact reason Ridley created Prometheus to go back to his original vision of humanity discovering an evil Godlike entity.

Well i hope that Ridley persuades fox to look at Gigers work for influence as to who the greater being would be. We have seen Engineers, we have seen the Elders although Ridley was not happy with them and may revamp them, even if he did so we have to assume they would still be Humanoid. So we could even have 15ft Humanoids but to me is this God or Gods.. i hope not. What about a Xeno-Esque life form, maybe thats what the Deacon Mural was... nope i think having God related to the Xeno again would be a big no no for me... But when we look at Gigers work as far as the way he has machine and biology interlaced together and even what appears to be lifeforms that are also attached to the infrastructure of buildings and ships and machinery these are the kinds of things that interest me. [img]http://illbethejudgeofthat.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/hr_giger_biomechanicallandscape_0051.jpg[/img] [img]http://lcart3.narod.ru/image/fantasy/giger/ny/hr_giger_newyorkcity_XX_subway.jpg[/img] [img]http://lcart3.narod.ru/image/fantasy/giger/ny/hr_giger_newyorkcity_XXVI.jpg[/img] These are images that interest me and maybe what we have is a Machine that is Bio Mechanical that keeps growing and that kind of taps into and uses hosts, so that maybe the machine could actually have different races that are captured and integrated into the master machine. I know may sound a bit of Star Trek Borg meets the Matrix but with a Giger touch could that be the answer?

Op Don't want to be a smartass BUT If you read the four alien scripts THEN The reason they didn't use weapons in these scripts was because if one drop of acid burnt through 2 decks then shooting it to kill was going to unleash so much acid that they undoubtedly would have had a hull breach. They had lazerguns in these scripts but couldn't use it for the above mentioned reason and ash reminded that the creature was so quick to regenerate that if they blasted it it would heal pretty quickly - so in alien they never mentioned weapons because we assumed they didn't have but the original premise was different and they left that out I guess to well to male the story better ??

Who knows....

In 2 of those drafts acid holes were over the ship where they discovered the dead ancient skeleton. You see had they not been on the ship while travelling through space the outcome would have been much different. Aliens really was a shitload of ideas never used in alien as in the one draft the (I think the unmarked early 1978 draft) where the derelict was of human origins and the ship was full of burnt holes of many facehuggers/xenos being shot. What's interesting is in the 1983 aliens draft cameron used this idea when the jordan father remained in the stasis field while his wife went back to radio for help and the crew coming to help had weapons and the whole bunch of them were facehugged inside the stasis field upon trying to get the jordan father out and the resulting acid burning. What's interesting about this script is that hudson was cocooned and saw a shuttle where he was cocooned. Bishop refused to land the dropship for fear of breaking quarantine rules and ridley and hicks had to steal the shuttle which was parked where the queen were laying her eggs. Perhaps this was where the a3 people got the idea that perhaps there were eggs on the shuttle and somehow those eggs found their way into the ship. Perhaps ....

Also in some drafts visual communications was knocked out on decks B and C and they would not have been able to see the alien move around. Maybe these things were seen in alien but I felt it was woth mentioning.

Interesting stuff... Will have to read the final Alien Draft again, been ages since i have. And i have never read a Aliens draft so cant comment maybe i better try find one. As far as Alien and no Weapons i like how the movie was shot and they had none really as they was just a Haulage Vessel and not a Military one. And also about Ash seemed to know a bit about he Alien but not as much as maybe the other draft had. Which i think was a good move as that draft did seem to show that company knew what they was in for and that the Nostramo was indeed just Guinea Pigs... But that was back then, now we have Prometheus i guess some of that information that Ash had would now make sense as back when we had Alien and Aliens it was a puzzle to how the company had known so much in that draft.

None of this matters, as script doesn't equal movie. Especially whenever Ridley came on he changed a lot, look at the opening credits he wanted them like Hieroglyphics to suggest the Alien was part of a very advanced society, perhaps Godlike. This idea has been retconned in further films, but as I said " I said "meant" so you could say it is based upon the first film, Ridley even wanted the Alien to win but Fox wouldn't allow it. It's sequels prove otherwise, but yet there is something "beautifully eerie" about them just as there is about the Engineers now. That's the exact reason Ridley created Prometheus to go back to his original vision of humanity discovering an evil Godlike entity." -Sorry if I was unclear.

Agreed i think your point is that it does not matter for canon what the drafts had, only what the movies show.... There is a lot left out of the drafts that dont make it to the movie and we have to not rely on what we see in drafts for answers, i guess we can use them to better understand some stuff we dont get from the movies, but ultimately we have to accept what we see on film. And a interesting thing is that many sequels seem to borrow unused concepts and ideas that was in the drafts that never got used, and each movie in the franchise has borrowed some elements from a previous movies draft.

Double Post

Op I agree you can only work from what you see in the movie. Was the alien shot with a metalrod at the end of the movie ? It seemed to pass through the creature or was that only in the drafts ?? It seems the creature was able to be damaged. But how did it pass thorugh those iris doors so quickly ?? Without harming itself ?? The creature must be able to heal itself quickly after passing though the little hole left in the middle of the door ?? Could it squeeze through ??? At the speed it was moving ??? So then how do you answer the question you posed based on what is seen in the movie alien ?? Will you use what is seen in aliens alien 3 and resurrection to argue you point as well as prometheus ??

The original alien was not invincible. When Ash calls it the perfect organism, he is basing that, as coldly as only an android can do, on strengths the organism has. He considered all factors, and added his belief that the organism is perfect also for being clear of any delusions of morality or conscience. The alien did not need any supernatural powers to earn this high appraisal, and I do not believe Ridley ever wanted to suggest such a thing. There is no truly supernatural aspect, only the alien having scary, disturbing qualities. I have no doubt that guns and ammo could have killed the original alien. They literally couldn't try that, and like I said, the alien did not need to be supernaturally invincible to be the perfect organism according to Ash and his scientific standards.

Good points... Cant remember if i said it was invincible, i know it was not just some preferred how it seemed near that compared to how more vulnerable they was in Aliens. But sequels seem to always give us that, as Predator seemed more awe inspiring from the first movie, and indeed maybe the 2nd compared to how easy they was killed in the AVP movies. Th Xeno Perfect quote most like means it is Perfect for its function. Humans are flawed, and other Mammals inc Lions, Tigers etc.. Where as for example a Ant is Perfect for its function which to to procreate its kind, and i get this same instinct from the Xeno and i have in many other threads argued that even the Queen and Morph can co-exist as the perfect means to procreate. You see Ants when they no Queens, they can change one of the Eggs to produce a Queen or Queens by looking after and feeding the Egg different to others. Bees likewise. So my view of the Xeno, was that could Egg Morph be the route to create a Queen Face Huger.... to me makes more sense as the Egg Morph is a flawed method of procreation if it was the only means of doing so. Is the Xeno Prefect.... i would say nope, perfect for its function yes.... The only Perfect Organism in Sci Fi is The Thing... boy is that one nasty Organism to deal with the King of all Sci Fi monsters and Aliens.

i never really agreed with the notion that the aliens got weaker and more animal like as the series goes on. okay, well maybe its true in the later movies, but not in aliens which is what i assume most are referring too. you see, in alien not only could they not shoot them because of the acid blood, but in aliens they are using [b]armor piercing explosive tip rounds[/b] not to mention, to me they honestly seem smarter in aliens. they know when to stop coming down the hallway, they systematically check for ways in, they cut the power, and the queen figures out howto use the elevator. they also show signs of good communications as it shows the queen signaling the warriors not to attack. now you could say that was all just the queen, but we don't actually know that, just because the queen appears to be smarter does not mean that the rest of them didn't do some of those things on there own. also i am not saying the alien in the first movie is not smart, it just doesn't show it as much. and as for the whole "they turned them into bugs" argument i would like to remind everyone again that insects were one of the primary inspirations for the original monster, so i really don't see the problem.

@Invaderzit; They did get weaker in the sequels, that was made clear in the films. Bugger, I never know where to place my comers and full stops.

@Necronom 4 › did they really? think about it. other then alien vs predator, the only other times where an alien was easy to kill was when using super insane sci fi weapons. also in alien they can stop the alien by closing the vents, in aliens they can break through a steel door. granted there are more of them, but just because ash calls them perfect in the first film doesn't mean it really was. it didn't actually do that much at all in terms of strength.