Time on LV-223 before take off and potential Deacon involvement in Shaw's death

Hey QES.  My guess is that it is not an egg.  It was the placental sac that was attached by umbilical cord.  I don't think a facehugger was in it.

Given how much Ridley Scott is invested in doing these prequel films and how much he has tied Prometheus and Covenant together, the Deacon seems like to much of a loose end just to abandon. Especially given it was the climax of the film. 

I have no doubt we will see the Deacon again at some stage, though maybe not in A:C. 

It would be interesting to see what a deacon/trilobite - human morph would produce.    

Indeed the whole feature was interesting i made a topic on it to cover a number of things, that would conflict with a direct  LV-223 ==> Paradise Travel.

One thing is the Hair Growth, and Dr Shaws Hair Growth is at least 9 Months worth it appears to have grown 6-8" which a average Person would grow in 12 Months, but at very least 9.

I dont see how the Deacon got on board because of this, as we would have to wonder how does a Deacon get on board and not be detected by David or Shaw for maybe 12 Months, at least 9 Months.

Unless Ridley is trying to get us to accept Shaws Hair just grew that fast in days...

However, i watched Prometheus the other day and then it dawned on my something we fail to cover much....  The movie does not give no Time References, apart from we can assume the date they arrived on LV-223 is Dec 25th and then we know Shaw made the SOS on the 1st Jan 2104, this is 7 days after.

Do we assume the SOS was made, as they left?

How did she make the SOS?  Juggernaught? The Communications on the Buggy, these all seemed not so likely.

Did they stay on LV-223 after the SOS was transmitted?

Did they transmit it from the Lifeboat?

A lot of things to consider...

And looking at Prometheus, if we assume the Landing Day was Christmas Day then the Trilobite attacking the Engineer would have been December 27th 28th latest, which we need to ask...

Does the Deacon take 3 Days to Gestate?  I doubt it.

Rick

I agree that the sac somewhat resembles a placental sac, though it appears a little too solid and intact as seen below.

...but let's say it IS a placental sac (entirely possible). This wouldn't negate the Deacons ability to eggmorph the engineer's body, a few hammerpedes, or any other organism it finds on 223. While the idea that the Deacon was born holding the next gen could be ruled out by the object actually being the placental sac, I'd hope you wouldn't rule out that there is still the chance for the Deacon to construct it's own hugger (assuming the egg morphing concept is indeed resurrected.)

BigDave

Allow me to clarify my thoughts. Here's how it could have happened.

First we see that Shaw's hair is at the discussed length while she is reattaching David's head. This tells me that a significant amount of time passed before she decided to do it. This would indicate to me that whatever work was to be done prior to this, Shaw would have done alone which would make everything take longer. I do not presume they spent that 12 months on the ship they eventually left on, but I'll get to that.

For starters, it would have been silly to just hop on the first ship they find and take off without preparations. I would think in a realistic world things would go like this.

Let's start at the point where Shaw recovers David's body. First, Shaw would need to travel to another ship with David in tow. Who knows how long that took. Then she would need to make it a home and set up a means of producing food such as a garden. Next she would need to salvage supplies for the trip from the Prometheus wreckage and the lifeboat, which means journeying back and forth between the crash site and their new ship (if Shaw is doing this alone it would be a very slow process).

Next, a determination would need to be made as to whether their ship is space worthy. If they were to find it was not, they'd need to travel to another (possibly several) ship(s) and spend time verifying if all systems are intact. If this is the case they would have to transport their food operation and their supplies which would add time. All this aside from however much time it took to get David back in one piece (and considering potential trust issues and/or the potential lack of the right tools/materials to do it, who knows how long that took?)

So now let's address the Deacon getting on the ship issue. First, let's just ask the question, would the Deacon be able to get on the ship without Shaw or David noticing? Well if they were away gathering supplies or had not yet reached the ship (Deacon get's there first and hides) I would say yes. It's entirely possible. We also have no idea whether or not the Deacon has the ability to hibernate or what it's nutritional requirements are. Malnutrition may or may not be an issue for the Deacon. If the Deacon could sense that David and Shaw intend to leave the planet (intelligence inherited from the engineer) than I would imagine it would be interested in not being detected so that it might later engage a larger population and increase it's chances of survival. I would use this same logic for it planting it's egg on the ship if malnutrition WAS an issue and the Deacon sensed it's own inevitable demise.

All that said, there is no reason to assume the Deacon was in no way capable of slipping under David and Shaw's radar, especially if it stowed away while they were offsite. It's chances of success are even further improved if it stowed away (or planted it's egg) closer to the time they depart for paradise.

From memory of the ending, didn't the second Juggernaut leave WELL before the Deacon birthed? 

It seems to me that Shaw basically loaded up the Juggernaut with supplies using those buggies they had left over, then took off with Davids help

It looks like she just wanted to get off the ground and away from the possible monsters/bio goo on the planet, then set about repairing David, plotting a course and going to the engineers planet

Why it took nearly a year though is anyone's guess!

If I'm remembering correctly one of visual effects guys said in an interview there will be a deacon like creature.

However, it remains to be seen how it will play out.

AdamPD

The reason I had stated in the original post

"This would indicate that the final scenes in Prometheus after Shaw recovers David's body are probably out of sequence."

is for that very reason. Yes the movie made it appear that way, but after watching the Crossing prologue, it looks like they stick around for a while. One part of the Crossing that seemed to indicate this is why I included the image above in the original post.

Shaw staring out of ship portals. That's not space on the other side of those portals. It looks like a day sky.

Next after she reattaches David's head, we have them collectively operating the ship. It makes more sense that this is the moment of take-off, as Shaw did not know how to operate the controls at the end of Prometheus.

Indeed QES... your reply in part is the reason i had made the Topic yesterday.... it raises a few Questions that surely would be Plot Holes if we are to assume ... Shaw got the Head and Body and what Supplies she gathered and headed off on the Buggy.. Which i can expand on in reply to this..

"From memory of the ending, didn't the second Juggernaut leave WELL before the Deacon birthed? "

Yes but we do not know 100% the time frame, all we can assume is they landed December 25th (Janek Christmas Tree, and Holloway wanting to open his Presents).  We know Shaw made the SOS on Jan 1st 2104

Thats 7 Days... the Prometheus Timeline would imply.

Day 1:  Land on LV-223, explore the Temple, see the Mural and Collect the Urn.  Then back on Prometheus inspect the Head. Holloway is disappointed, David Spikes Drink and Holloway has sex with Shaw.

Day 2: They go back to the Temple to look for Fifield and Milburn, find Dead Milburn and Holloway becomes Ill and then they head back to the Prometheus before he gets Fried by Vickers, Shaw is then examined and put to sleep.

Potentially Day 2: Cont... or early Day 3.

Shaw has her C-Section, Fifield Attacks, and Weyland and Co go down to wake the Engineer up... ending the day with the Prometheus crashing into the Juggernaught and Engineer getting Cuddled by the Trilobite.

This puts the time Shaw got Davids body and head as being December 26th or 27th....

Shaw leaves the SOS on the 1st of January... then we see the Deacon Born.....  do we assume

a) SOS was made on the Juggernaught while they had left and departed a few days travel?

b) If not we have to wonder, does the Deacon then take 4-5 Days to Gestate?

We really dont know how long the Deacon takes to get Birthed, the Xenomorph takes a average of 16-24 hours, Shaw's Pregnancy had reached a 3rd of its way (before Belly Burster) within less than 24 hours, more than 12.

Its easy to assume the Deacon would not take 4-5 days, but we cant be sure.

All we do know is that after Shaw got Davids Head, to when they left it appeared to be 4-5 days latter.

This sounds way to reminiscent of Alien 3 ; there's just no way Sir Ridley Scott would do this .

But again we cant take it for Fact that the Juggernaught left, not long after she made that SOS....

And as QES pointed out as i did in my Topic... that Port Hole, is it a Light (why would she be watching it) or a Port Hole to outside in which case why is it so light...

So potentially they have not left yet, Shaw has long hair which means she has been there for a long time, Months and not Days.

so yes there is a lot there to take in, which some could wonder are Plot Holes.... not if there is a explanation, even if its something we will never be shown.

This does still throw the Deacon into doubt, but again as QES tries to ponder... we dont know the intentions and intelligence of the Deacon....  Ridley had plans for the Alien in the Original to be intelligent even as far as to kill Ripley and impersonate her voice.... yes this may be a bit far fetched.... and was dropped.

But Alien also had the Egg Morph Scene, in the DC and it showed us the Organism had one Agenda, Procreate and they also planned to show that it would then Die after it had achieved this Task.

This was before Cameron's Egg Layer Queen, We also have to ask why on Alien Day was the DC version with few more bits shown and not the None Egg-Morph Cut?

I think its a Plot Hole if the Deacon got to that ship, it would want to kill them?  Not if we follow the Alien Route, and maybe yes it could Stow away.. but i find it hard to see how they (Shaw and David never find it).

If Shaw has concerns about David and so its a matter of Months to build up the convenience and relationship to re-build him (Ridley said a while back he will slowly be put back together) and its a Big Idea.

Well Stitching his head on as shown is not a Big Idea

But perhaps showing us that Shaw waits Months during a Bonding Time before she finally decides to is a Big Idea.

So maybe she collects Supplies, this would explain stuff we see in AC, maybe indeed she has to spend time to figure how to create Food that will last her... then again Cryo-sleep we have to assume would be fine.... but it appears she needed Food to last many Months while she thought about it..

Which brings me to the Deacon...

Shaw has no way of knowing about the Deacon, Would David?  Maybe?

Would he tell her... this depends on their relationship at the end of Prometheus...  but then we need to also take note that David needs Shaw alive...  If he knows what happens next, he would Warn her about the Dangers as going back to the Lifeboat poses a risk...

This is a potential Plot Hole ish... i can only assume David informs Shaw that the Process of Infection resulted in the Organism she had C-Sectioned (Trilobite) that Evolves and Grows and Simply Kills then dies itself, and it has no other objective.

He could convince Shaw to check, and if she does and the Deacon is missing, to her it would indeed look like the Trilobite killed the Engineer and Died.

Something like this ^^^ has to be used to explain why Shaw would go back to the Lifeboat, which without would be a Plot Hole to where she obtained the stuff to survive, repair David and Clothing etc.

Then its a case of where is the  Deacon?

Maybe it sneaks in?

Maybe it Egg Morphs... it would need a Body, does it need a Live Host? or Dead, if Dead then why not the Engineer?

Maybe it went to the Temple, and stayed there or Egg Morphed one of the Dead Prometheus Crew?  Then died off.. leaving a Egg?

Maybe this explains why the Deacon is no threat....

Then as David is put together, he goes and explores and finds the Egg?

And he then stores this on the Juggernaught... thats the better explanation i would come up with ;)

BD - My gut tells me she sent the message from the lifeboat not Juggs.  FYI - I have copy written "trilobite cuddles " LOL  just kidding.  I also think that the Deacon didn't stay on the lifeboat, it would be too exposed.  It left to explore its surroundings and get a better vantage point to look for prey or to do what it does.  This is probably why nothing happens to Shaw while getting supplies.  Keep in mind she doesn't have tons of air in her lifesuit.

QES - Here is a picture of a human placenta.  Compare it to the

picture of the deacon.

They look very similar (slight differences in color).  When the placenta comes out of a human it throbs like a human heart pumping blood just like you see next to the deacon.

What if the deacon doesn't need to egg morph?

QES - I only mention this because some insects/reptiles/amphibians/aquatic life here on earth are asexual and are able to reproduce on their own.  Examples being starfish, snails, urchins, frogs, etc.

Missed the part about events being out of sequence, apologies!

I can't imagine the deacon being on board the Juggernaut at this point though, if we are to see one in Covenant, then it's probably David infecting an engineer/humanoid and it birthing like it did in Prometheus

Is it possible that corpse we saw in his lab with the open chest, was the result of a deacon bursting out?

But I wonder where he's getting fresh humanoids from on the planet, I assume there were survivors, but how many?

Rick

Yes I did agree that the sac somewhat resembles a placental sac. This is have no problem with. I will say, I did not realize that a human placental sac throbs like a heart until I read it in your post. That indeed lends a ton of validity to your point which I believe I now agree with. Thanks for clarifying that.

Also good point about the asexual reproduction. I didn't even consider, that for all we know, the Queen could have reproduced asexually. I do say that in considering asexual reproduction and the potential for egg morphing, I feel it's safe to say Ridley has a variety of options for allowing the Deacon to create a hugger (if he goes that route).

Indeed the Body Looks Fresh....

Ish... Definitely had not been there for years...

Definitely know its not Rosenthel now... even though Bone Structure was the same, so this was one theory thats put to bed now.

It could be Shaw but i did in a post a while back a size comparison and worked out the being on the Table in Davids Workshop is about 6ft 6"

My bet is.. Goran D Kluet

QES - What if the Deacon can molt up to queen status and start birthing out its own little Deaconites?  Then we lose the egg morphing all together.  Or is that not your route?

Rick

No issue with that at all. I've been trying to give serious consideration to the bringing back of egg morphing because so many here believe there's a real chance Ridley will bring the idea back. I was once opposed to it because I felt it would weaken the concept of the Queen. But I am the type of person that lives to fight against my own preferences clouding my judgement. I'm quite partial to playing devils advocate and seriously defending positions I don't initially agree with. 

Ultimately, I'm a huge Queen fan and if the Deacon became a proto-queen I would love it.