Alien Movie Universe

Giger drawings and David 8.

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pulserifle187

MemberOvomorphOct-15-2014 2:28 AM

Most of H R Gigers drawings have a biomechanical themes. Which I believe will feature in Prometheus 2. From what I have seen in the first prometheus movie, David 8 is the only one who understands the engineers technology. If David can use the machinery of the engineers it will give him unspeakable power. David himself can either become a destroyer or creator. He could even create a creature to counter the Xeno.

"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"
16 Replies

pulserifle187

MemberOvomorphOct-15-2014 2:29 AM

Oh, hello everyone!

 

"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"

Batchpool

MemberFacehuggerOct-15-2014 7:56 AM

That’s an interesting line of thought, one which I would like to turn on its head slightly. Suppose it is David who creates the Xeno ?

 

pulserifle187

MemberOvomorphOct-16-2014 12:18 AM

True, that's a good thought. Maybe he uses Shaw as a host for the Xeno.

"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-16-2014 6:10 PM

Well they have been teasing us that the events of LV 223 lead to the Xeno, but off course with the movie it has a lot of conflicting scenes and information for example LV 426 Crash looked like it had been there for a long long time and not between Prometheus 2094 ish and Alien 2123 ish

No way the Derelict had been crashed for up to 28 years...

Also the one fresco we never got a clear look at, but the actual fresco work shows a Egg being held by either a Xeno, or Xeno related Organism maybe the one in the other fresco with the Engineer.

These would have been over 2000 years old showing us the Eggs had been around for longer than 2000 years, Ridley also said that the Derelict had crashed within few hundred years of the outbreak that killed the Engineers Prometheus found dead on LV 223.

That puts the Derelict crash at between 200 BC and 200 AD...

But yes i also thought they was going for David to be the Xeno Ancestor from the trailer of the movie before we saw it come out....

I thought David would use whatever they found on LV 223 to make himself more Human i.e more Biological and he would also infect Shaw, but in the End Shaws Baby then infects the new hybrid David who is now Part Organic with Shaws Baby Face Huger and the result was a Bio-Mechanical Organism that gives birth to the Xeno.

Thats how i felt they was going and how i felt they could have gone, but that would meant a Dead David... but hey he is a Android so they could cast Fassbender again as another...

Anyway this idea and if they go for similar in future would not add up with the Alien timeline unless some kind of time travel is involved and i dont want them to go that path unless on return from the Engineers Homeworld after David trashes the the place, his ship he escapes in goes to enter some kind of Hyper Space FTL travel but somehow suffers a fault and causes a ripple in space that actually sends him and the Derelict back in time.

A Fluke and mistake and thus not something that the company could replicate or even maybe the Engineers, as that opens the door to the why don’t the Engineers go back in time... to undo us or the outbreak etc.. or why don’t Weyland go back into time etc.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Batchpool

MemberFacehuggerOct-17-2014 1:04 PM

@ Big Dave

 I do agree that there is quite a bit of conflicting info, but I do think there is plenty of room for manoeuvre, when it comes to Davids’  knowledge of the Engineers’ technology.  

One of the things that has always stood out for me through out the Alien franchise, has been the matter of fact attitude Ripley had over what would happen if the Xenos ever got to Earth. This has made me wonder if there had ever been an event in the past that came close to something like that ever happening..

During the board hearing in Aliens,with Ripley, the events of discovering what went on wth the Nostromo, only take the viewpoint that nothing like the Xeno has ever been discovered off Earth. That does’nt mean to say nothing ‘on’ Earth was ever discovered. The other interesting point being that there was no mention of whether the Nostromo was sent on company orders.

Going back to Alien, the special order for Science Officers eyes only, would support the idea,that existence of the Xeno was limited to AI only. The only AI we know of in Alien really is Ash. In both Alien and Aliens there is to the best of my knowledge no firm evidence that states the company knew about the Xeno. I know it can be argued that Ash replaced a previous Science officer, but the rest could still be conjecture.

This finally brings me round to David. Could his knowledge of Engineering technology result in him creating a Xeno organism. Maybe not one that we are familiar with, but one that may have been brought back to Earth, or even created on Earth resulting in a Xeno type war.

One of the features about the Xeno, although not covered in Alien was remarked on by Giger in the making of Alien. That being the ability for a Xeno to avoid detection from a body scan. Something that did prove useful to Ash, and maybe a knowledge later discovered by Burke.

So to finally get to the point. I think there is plenty of scope for David to come up with a Xeno type creation. This could be similar to Gigers designs, but would allow for a new / different artistic direction that could permeate through any Prometheus 2 and beyond venture.

Hope this makes sense.

pulserifle187

MemberOvomorphOct-18-2014 3:15 AM

If david can wield their machinery, use to create pretty much anything he wants . He could become as peter weyland said "we are the gods now" . He  no longer has any restraints.

I'm thinknig of an overthrow of humanity may feature in P2.

 

"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"

allinamberclad

MemberOvomorphOct-25-2014 11:34 AM

The xenomorph already exists - it's been sitting in eggs on LV426 for thousands of years. Seems dificult to get to a place where David created it.

A Story that calls for for David to create a, different, xenomorph-like creature - and then attempt to come and overthrow Humanity with it, has to negotiate several terrific issues: one of which is the fact that, by the time of Alien Resurrection he's been gone for, I think, over a Century...

So, any line that shows any danger of bringing him into contact with, [beyond any number of Humans], Humanity, in general, again, has to be closed down pretty quick, and well before Humanity, in general, is likely to come to be aware of his existence: and it then has to get rid of whoever fool of the Humans he could encounter that remain and who are likely to tell the tale, just as certainly. 

Otherwise, it then has to be explained why no-one of Humanity has ever mentioned what would be a very significant historical turning point like David and his xeno army intending to, or attempting to, or managing to, fly in from Space to try and overthrow Humans, in all that time: and why everyone of Humanity has actually just acted like he never even existed and as if none of it ever happened - even when they do happen to come across creatures that are suspiciously like the ones that were supposed to destroy them, before, but that they don't talk about. 

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-26-2014 4:55 PM

"In both Alien and Aliens there is to the best of my knowledge no firm evidence that states the company knew about the Xeno"

There is 35 years left from the events of Prometheus to Alien, and a lot of questions would need to be answered as far as the company going to find out what became of Prometheus on LV 223, and surely how does it then not detect anyhing on LV 426 and also the other question that is after Alien and before Aliens how come the company after sending off Colonists for LV 426 never took a interest in LV 223.

These potential plot holes would have to be covered... yes the Comic is doing that and the rescue mission sent some many years in future comes across Xenos but we cant class that as Canon.

So i would have to say as Ridley is not wishing to visit the Xeno again, that any mission to LV 223 leaves empty handed and they do not find anything regarding the Xeno there, maybe the closest link would be the Mural and Frescos and the Frescos are no more...

I think the only way to clear any inconsistancies would be that LV 223 has to be destroyed or at least the Temples and contents after the events of Prometheus Franchise but before those of Alien, and thus leaving LV 426 potential Alien Signal as the only source of whats connected to LV 223 to be salvaged.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-26-2014 5:05 PM

As far as David creating a Xeno... well type of organism,... this is pretty much set in stone...  simple reasons why...

We have not been given the definative answers about the Xeno and its creation and relation to the Engineers and Goo, Ridley would not be showing us the Xeno again, which leaves a hole that could be answered in future and not by Ridley in a way that would make Ridley turn in his grave....

Nope Ridley has to somehow without seeing Xenos run about, he has to show us more clues to the Xeno, this can be done by something David finds on Paradise that he then subjects to the Goo, or by events that we see as from the effects of the Goo that David WILL unleash.

Ridley said David is bringing Hell with him.... we know he has taken a Juggernaught and can only assume the Cargo is Urns at the very least...

There is via Murals, and clues on Paradise, and maybe some if they send a mission to LV 223 from Earth and most likely from a series of events caused by David that we would somehow see some process that futher show a connection between Xeno and Goo

I.e if Davids actions create something that creates a Egg this could be something that lays or morphs things into Eggs, or simply something that mutates into a Proto Egg that contains a Organism similar but different to the Xeno.... this instance would show that the Goo can produce a Egg containing a similar organism thus proving with the Xeno it could had been Egg before Chicken.

Not saying this will happen but surely David will unleash the goo on these Gods/God and the result i think could lead to give us some more clear indication to maybe how the Xeno came to be...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-26-2014 5:11 PM

@allinamberclad

 

Now to maybe deal with a Scenerio you gave that has flaws......

We do not know if the Engineers or who ever are on Paradise are aware of our creation, or indeed they may think we was destroyed. This could imply if so that a fraction created us without those on Paradises consent or/and that a sabotage occuried on LV 223 that they then informed those on Paradise the mission was completed..

But futher to this, we simply do not known how far away Paradise is.... even in Engineer ships how do we know that it does not take over 100 years to get there, or even well over 50 one way so 100 return.....

This would put Paradise a vast distance away, and why in future Alien movies mankind never comes into contact with the Engineers, maybe why the Engineers never came back or especially if those on LV 223 created us without the knowledge of those on Paradise.

What i am saying is there is every chance that the journey to Paradise could be that vast that well when David and Shaw reach Paradise it could be many years after even the events of Alien 3....

We have to assume David is going to lay waste to those on Paradise, and if David and his Monster set back to Earth he could not get here maybe untill after the events of Alien Resurection.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-26-2014 5:19 PM

Going futher......

To explain the LV 426 crash, in connection with David could be possible but would involve time travel and i would not like that route unless....

 

David near destroys all on Paradise but a Elder escapes with a Cargo off Eggs, i have to assume these are not what David created because the LV 223 Fresco shows us a Xeno Egg already... But we could go for a whole... David creates them, and Elder sets off to Earth but only gets as far as LV 426 prior to LV 223 outbreak in which case Engineers go and get Davids Bio Weapon to Re-Weaponize...

But this would lead to a whole manner of well paradoxes.....

But yes maybe a Elder could leave to Earth with a Xeno Cargo in order to go through some time shift time travel worm hole to destroy us back in the past thus prevent David being created and destroying the Gods on Paradise....

But then why not go back to before Prometheus gets to LV 223... nope i dont want to see any time travel going on, unless its a one of by accident but then we could talk paradoxes again....

So i would like the Space Jockey to be a event as Ridley said a few hundred years before or after the LV 223 outbreak around about 2000 years ago.... and that this event has nothing to do with David at all.

And the only monsters we shall see that David unleashes are those on Paradise.. that never get to Earth, well not as of Alien movies timeline.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

allinamberclad

MemberOvomorphOct-28-2014 3:03 PM

@ BigDave.  Sorry: what seems flawed is that most of this doesn't seem to have much at all to do with what I actually wrote? 

I didn't give any Scenarios, I was commenting on the suggestions that have David creating the xenomorph - and also coming to Earth destroy Humanity with it: and why these aren't supportable within the Story and/or supportable in the Story up to the point Alien Resurrection?

So, with that: the Engineers - or, whoever's on Paradise - and the matter of whether or not they are aware of Humanity's existence, as you put it; that's actually nothing to do with it.

How far away Paradise is; how long Engineer ships take to get there; why humans never come into contact with Engineers; why the Engineers never came back and the length of time the journey to Paradise takes is nothing to do with it, either.

Assuming David is going to lay waste to those on Paradise, [why assume it?] but anyhow: that is, also, not directly to do with it - and the last point is only what I have just said: that David coming back to Earth is not sustainable within the Story, up to the point of Resurrection.

You seem to have misunderstood.

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-28-2014 5:31 PM

Maybe i may have misunderstood? Maybe you not quite understand what i was saying or maybe i was commenting on points that you was not intending to cover, so maybe i not quite understood you ;)

I think i was trying to cover all bases as far as to as you said potential reasons by up until after Alien Resurrection its seems no one is aware of the Engineers, David or any Xeno lifeforms apart from those encountered on LV 426.

The franchise is not complete yet and maybe these would be answered, or simply some people in the company that simply keep things covered up...

So i was try to ponder anyway that David could in some way be responsible for the Xeno, and only ways would be via some events i suggested that would involve time travel and potential Paradoxes.....

So i was just trying to say that as far as your point as i understood it, that what potential is there for David to create some similar Monsters from the Cargo he is carrying on that Engineer Space Ship....  and there is every good reason that we would see him do something like this...

But then as far as the impact of doing so has on Paradise and repercussions for Earth and all Earth Colonies... well it seems there are none up to the point of AR...

Which i then gave scenarios to explain maybe why that could be.. such as David destroys what is left of the Engineers, but then after he does this how come he and Shaw do not return home?

We simply do not know why, doe they survive? do they even arrive at Paradise before Alien Resurrection i,e we dont know how long the journey could be, and if they did make it how come they have not come back and again maybe they or David is on his way back but does not return until after Alien Resurrection.

Basically meaning that yes there is every possibility that the scenario you suggest of David returning with some Horrors he has created to unleash on Mankind after the events of Alien Resurrection can not be ruled out.

BY THE WAY....

I hope i never came across as trying to criticize your post, thats not my intention, i find what you suggest as interesting and lets face the facts....

The Xeno has been done to death... somewhat..

Unless out there in the Galaxy our Engineers have created another race of Humans or near Humans then how does the franchise span off to explore other Organisms potentially created by the Goo Bio Weapon.

They have to be careful how they deal with our Engineers and how they react to David and Shaw as there is no evidence any Engineers have been back or interacted with Mankind from after Prometheus in the franchise... so we have to assume the same does not happen after the events of Part 2/3 or very least after Alien.

So having David create and unleash a new Horror on the Engineers looks very likely and why stop there with the said results, David has a Ego and you can bet if he creates some new form of life that lays waste to the GODS, David would be very proud and feel as that now he is a GOD, and he may indeed want to take his creation back to Earth at some point.

So yes that leaves potential in the Alien Universe after the events of Alien Resurrection to see David return with a new Horror that could be far worse than the original Xeno.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-28-2014 5:38 PM

OK think i got you now...

Your not sugesting the potential for David to create the Xeno or similar, your post is in reply to the OP in regards to the Pit Falls and Hurdles that must be overcome for such a thing to fit in, so basically saying maybe its doubtfull we would see anything David creates being precurser to the Xeno and indeed no chance of what ever he creates getting back to Earth etc..

 

Maybe thus saying that if David does encounter the Engineers/Gods and does infect them with the Cargo, then mankind would never be effected or aware of what ever events that take place after David unleashes potential HELL!

Am i correct?

I do think that this is the most logical conclusion, and the only effect on Mankind must be maybe that what ever David does, prevents the Engineers from ever pestering us again?

I however would like to see maybe in the distant future after the events of Alien Resurection some kind of introduction of the Engineers or a few back into the timeline of events.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

allinamberclad

MemberOvomorphOct-30-2014 1:23 PM

@ BigDave. Yes, well..eventually, we are on practically the same page.

I was addressing the two original suggestions - which are not un-interesting - but I was only pointing out that, for reason of consistency, a Story that puts David back into the general visibility of Humanity just does not seem able to stand up: at least, not for well over a Century.

It's a, literally unavoidable, black hole - and avoiding it puts you a Century down-when in Time which only seems yet another problem; as that seems an awful lot of time to take care of from Part 1 of a Story, to Part 2 - just to get a place where David is waging War on Earth.

Probably better to avoid Earth altogether - which is probably partly why, in Prometheus, the big, "Attempt to Complete the Mission to Destroy Earth", routine bites the dirt in less than 5 minutes; and why no-one goes back there.

If anyone gets to Earth, [at all, let alone to carry out an interstellar genocide], then Earth in general certainly cannot know about it and it would have to be an attempted instellar genocide that no-one remembers  - otherwise, it would all get a little tricky, if not ridiculous, trying to explain that all away in the Story when what it would actually mean is a re-write of the entire franchise.

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-30-2014 3:56 PM

Right lol, yeah so in the end i got ya, your reply was based on my answers to the OT... I too felt that the only way David could come back to Earth with a Weapon of Horror to be unleashed was because welll it too wont add up with the Time Line unless we are going a alternative universe... sorry i dont want Prometheus to be to Alien Franchise as JJ Abrahams Star Treks are to the previous movies.

I think Prometheus needs to be direct CANON... in which case indeed only way to introduce David would be after the events of Alien R, then we have to explain why he has disapeared for 285 years, surely a round trip to Paradise cant take that long?  But guess it could be the Galaxy is 100'000 light years wide and from our location futherst point is over 60'000 LY, or to centre is 26'000 light years.  Which would take Prometheus like 1300 years to had reached.

What i am saying is Prometheus would take say 5000 years to travel the Width of our Galaxy and we just dont know where Paradise is, so it could be anywhere in the Galaxy and its then case of how faster is the Engineers ship compared to Prometheus we have to assume faster but if Paradise is a distance that would take Prometheus over 1000 years how long does that take a Engineer Ship...?

Regardless it does not matter because i can not see David or Shaw ever returning as its like you said how does that fit into the Alien Universe,  same as the Engineers on Paradise we have to assume by Alien and after that Mankind simply has little knowledge or contact with our Engineers at all, if they intend to show us contact then how doe they fit that in with the apparent lack of knowledge of the Engineers in Alien Franchise?

One thing seems certain, there has to be a reason why the Engineers came back after the outbreak 2000 years ago, and surely if its case of they was not aware of our creation, or they decided we was not worth their time and left us to rot to our own devices, or of they was made aware that we was eradicated ..... WELL all that would change as soon as Shaw and David find Paradise and confront the Engineers or their creators..

Which could lead to a potential plot hole as to surely then the Engineers would want to come and see us or destroy unless it takes undreds of years..

Nope only sure way to cover that and close any potential plot hole would be that after David has finished with Paradise our Engineers and their creators are no more..

Fallen Victim to a creation that David unleashes on them, that may give us more insight to how the Goo works and how the connection  can link to the Eggs on LV 426.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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