Godzilla Movie

Something about Godzilla\'s design not noticed

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Cryolophosaurus

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 4:52 PM

So iv been going through the forums to make shure that I wouldnt make a repeat and as far as I can tell no one else is talking about a really important feature of Godzilla's new design that I really enjoy, and that is the fact that Godzilla looks Organic, now this might not seem like that big of a deal until you look back at all the old design's and at the reason why some peaple(myself included)have trouble getting into the old movies like when were young, and that reason is all of the old design's look artificial, not only in their looks but in their movement as well.

I meen look at how smexy that looks, id like to see the old Godzilla's do that.

RANDOM GIF

" It is better to be reviled than ignored, agleast then you know your spreading good in this world." 

19 Replies

godzillafan1995

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 4:55 PM

yeah i completly understand, so far i am liking legendarys godzilla more than 90's godzilla, and that was my favourite godzilla suit, he looks strong, tough (definatly looks like he has super strong armour) and above all he looks like an actual organic creature, the one problem i had with the suits is that sometimes the sking is too loose and flappy.

godzillafan1995

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 4:57 PM

also from what we have seen, this godzilla has already shown that he can do more compared to previous godzilla suits in terms of movement (epescially the way he roars) and emergence from the sea

MikeyNamez

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 5:48 PM

I agree VALKORIN 100%.  As i get older it makes the older ones harder to watch.  Once Cloverfield came out it really revived my interest in monster movies because of how realistic and grounded it felt.  Edwards' movie Monster and Pacific Rim just added to that and here we are now.  IM DYING for G14 to come out, going to be the best monster movie of all time. 

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaFeb-26-2014 6:20 PM

I think some people are jumping the gun again. Yes the new Godzilla looks more organic, but that's because it's made with modern day, western style special effects. And yes the movie does look fantastic so far, but "best monster movie of all time?" One could hope, but I doubt that.

Lets not forget, the old movies were never trying to be very realistic by the 1960s. The movements and special effects style was different on purpose. It was done to widen the 1960s Japanese audience and expand the imagination. Just because some don't understand this doesn't make it immediately superior. Even Gareth Edwards would back down from some of these comments as he highly respects the Eiji Tsuburaya era of films.

Dark, gritty and realistic does not automatically mean better. It's a shame the hype is making some fans believe that.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

godzillafan1995

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 6:53 PM

gman is right as well, really it's not the old movies faults (excpet post-91 hesie series) for the special effects, it's what they could do at the time, for giant monsters the fimling options were, either stop motion (what most pre-cgi american giant monster movies had) and suitmation (japans giant monster filming standard up to this point, although even suitmation is now starting to be replaced by japans better experience with cgi) reall only some movies are bad for their time like godzilla vs gigan with the degradging suit and Godzilla vs Mothra(1992) and godzilla vs spacegodzilla with the special and sound effects effects, while other movies like Mothra vs Godzilla & Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster (1964) are really good even for today's standard (a little dated but it was the arly 60's). really cgi is now the new addition of bringing Giant monsters to life, however who is to say that cgi wouldn't have existed if not due to Willis o Brian's Stopmotion and Eji Tsuburaya's Suitmation, at least in the case for giant monster movies.

Cryolophosaurus

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 7:14 PM

Oh I didnt meen it like that Gman, I love suitmation and I realise that that's what they had at the time, but the thing im talking about isnt that cgi is better outright its that to me its better in some ways, for instance im somone who really like's natural and flowing movement and when things look organic as stated above, and that's why I really enjoy cgi because it makes it easyer for me to get immersed and suspend my disbalief which is why movies like jurassic park,Alien, and pacific rim appeal to me so much because they found that perfect balance between practical effects and cgi(granted Alien less so on the cgi but danm did that suit look good, and the jeager head sets looked really good), and like those movies good real looking cgi is somthing iv been craveing from a Godzilla movie for years, but I still respect and enjoy suitmation for its own merits, but not only do I enjoy the visual immersion, I enjoy story immersion as well, and aside from the 54 movie not alot of the other movies can draw me inlike the original did, so thats another reason im looking forword to the movie cause this Godzilla, in my opinion only has to beat G 54's story and for me it will win the title of best monster movie of all time.

                                           Random GIF

" It is better to be reviled than ignored, agleast then you know your spreading good in this world." 

MikeyNamez

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 7:22 PM

Dont get me wrong as a kid i loved all of the G movies and watched them non stop. The VFX from those movies were good for the time they were released and its not their fault at all.  As far as being grounded, realistic though this movie has the best chance of doing that.  With the cast they have chosen and a having such a great director I have no doubt this will be one of the best monster movies ever made.  To me G14 even makes Pacific Rim look cartoonish.

 

Akagi

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 7:29 PM

Honestly, this is all subjective. I don't see this Godzilla as being any easier to accept as being real than the in-suit-Godzillas. Its all fantastical and silly really.

I could criticize the hell out of the visual effects in the trailer, as I wasn't that impressed, but honestly, CGI in general doesn't do a lot for me.

I just like it because its a different take on Godzilla-- not neccesarily a better one. Because what is good and what isn't is subjective to the nature of the individual veiwing the material. 

He is 350ft Tall people, those things on his neck ARE gills, and the Brazil photo is part of the final advertising design-- Deal with it.

junkerde

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 7:52 PM

Again we have different angles and illustrations then VS that CG, i mean compare 2 illustrations something like:

 vs. 

 

in the end thought the cg looks the best imo, its just really lighting that is one of the big factors, but we cant deny they did change the look of him throughout their production

Reggie1138

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 8:54 PM

I for one have been and always will be a strong supporter of cgi.(When done properly of course) Let's face it and put nostlgia aside. CGI allows the filmmaker to fully realize a character that does not exist and render them 100% articulate without the inherent restrictions of a suit or model set. But cgi takes a great deal of time and money and painstaking attention to detail. All it takes to pull you out of a scene is a minor detail that was missed or not polished enough or in some cases too clean. I'm beyond optimistic that this new Godzilla will give us what the previous versions as great as they were never could. That's a fully expressive face, drool,(not foam) furrowed brow, eye dialation, the whole 9. What I'm most impressed with so far is for once in a very long while we have a Godzilla movie that really does seem to have a real story driving it. Full of mystery, wonder,intrigue, and suspense I have been ready for this for a very, very, long time. Thanks WB/Legendary I needed this. The old movies have their charm and always will but I'm ready for something new it's long overdue. 

Daikaiju Danielle

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 9:06 PM

Well said, Reggi1138. :)

"Daddy's home- cake every night,"

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaFeb-26-2014 9:19 PM

@Valkorin and Reggie1138

I think you're mistaken when you mention nostalgia being a major factor here. Everything you two mentioned about what you enjoy for the sake of immersion is interesting to me because I've actually done a lot research on Westerner's infatuation with realism in film visuals. It sounds like you enjoy observing film visual effects through what I like to call a "western lense." It's not a bad thing, necessarily, but it's something that western culture has convinced itself to percieve as high art, or the correct way to use visual wizardry.

Again, nothing wrong with it, it's just how many of us have grown up. Including myself. It's taken years to break myself from it and understand why the original Godzilla series was so widely accepted. The "Eastern lense" is less about realism and more about objects representing something that isn't real. You could compare it to on stage theatre, for example. Their perception of how effects wizardry can be used is, arguably, more open minded.

For example, GodzillaFan1995 omitted post-1991 films from his list of good special effects. Granted, I thought a lot of the Heisei series' special effects were weak, but not because of the advances made by Hollywood at the time, but because of the advances made by other movies using the same visual style. (The Gamera Trilogy, Ultraman) It's not supposed to look real. It's supposed to look "theatrical." And that's practically been the case since the 1960s.

Unfortunately, the "Eastern lense" is being broken by western artistry-- as evident with the current Godzilla and tokusatsu's slow death in Japan. I just hope when the Western lense fully takes over people remember that tokusatsu was made with a specific look, feel and purpose in mind. Not simply because it was, "the best they could do at the time" or nostalgia.

On a slightly different note, although it's fun to see a different take on Godzilla I think it's important to remember that with the new movie's visual approach, Godzilla is not king. In Japan Godzilla birthed an entire genre and visual style to filmmaking. Rodan, Gamera, Ultraman and Super Sentai are all based on Godzilla. Here, Godzilla is based on other franchise's work; using tools and techniques that were mainly birthed in the early 1990s by James Cameron with The Abyss and Terminator 2 and Steven Spielberg with Jurassic Park. Today, it's nothing nearly as unique as the special effects styles Godzilla started with.

I'm mostly of the same opinion as Akagi. I'm not so much excited because I think the visual presentation is better, but because it's different for this particular series. That alone is worth getting excited for.

Anyway, you provided an interesting example of the Western Lense. I guess that's all I really wanted to point out. And again, it's nothing negative.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Madison

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 9:45 PM

@GMAN2887 or anyone else who is interested:

This not exactly on point with the discussion, but it's in the ballpark, or maybe the outside parking lot, and I thought it was interesting. 

It's a NY Times article talking about the decline of tokusatsu, and it's kind of tragic in that there are few young film makers in Japan who know how to work with rubber suits and miniature sets. Once this film-making generation ages out, there is not another to pick up the mantle. 

I'm not really making any judgements or analysis, positive or negative, I just thought it was a cool read. 

Anyways, here is the link: Rubber-Suit Monsters Fade. Tiny Tokyos Relax.

 

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaFeb-26-2014 9:49 PM

@Madison

Love that article. I've kept it saved for awhile now. More articles like it should be written.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Cryolophosaurus

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 9:59 PM

GMAN you bring up a great point acctualy about the differnce in movie styles from east to west, and Ill agree with you that when it comes to symbolism and makeing it's own niche design that spawned other movies of the same kind, so in that sence yes the 54 Godzilla is trully supirior to any of the later movies, but also the reason this Godzilla will be able to go toe to toe with the 54 movie is because it will cary with it an inhanced perspective of the 54's symbolism, ok im not being clear enough......uhhhhh........Yes great example during the trailer right after Godzilla enters the bay and starts to ise out of the water, the next scene is a huge tidal wave that roars through whatever city they were in, now if you ask me the fact that Godzilla just getting out of the water and causeing a tsunami is really representitive of his symboligy of "the wrath of nature" and "a walking natural disaster", and how they explain that they nuked Godzilla after they woke him is really reminisent in my opinion of the original Godzilla's "nuclear weapons" symbolism, of course I dont know how mutch more than that is symbolic in the movie so ill stop here.

P.S. I didnt acctualy say anything about nastalgia being the reason I like suitmation, it was acctualy kind of a slap to the face to hear something so dissrespectful.

 

                                          RANDOM GIF

" It is better to be reviled than ignored, agleast then you know your spreading good in this world." 

Akagi

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 9:59 PM

Sometimes I have a really hard time buying CGI'd landscapes. I think they look less organic than miniatures. Most modern films still use miniatures-- and I can always tell when a background is greenscreened or handmade, its so easy to tell when a film is made inside a studio and not on the street/out in the wild.

This entire debate is very... subjective. There is no other way to describe it. Everyone can fly around in circles-- but its still all opinions. I've seen some amazing CGI that has made my jaw drop-- but on the flipside, I've seen some puppetry and suitmation that is so damn good you'd almost think it real.

Let us not sit back and insult the Godzilla heritage because it doesn't live up to weird modern standards-- lets enjoy this new take on Godzilla as a breath of fresh air.

At the end of the day, I'm still going to celebrate his return to Tokusatsu when it finally happens again-- I'm still praying Keita Amemiya makes a Godzilla movie someday. #wishfulthinking 

He is 350ft Tall people, those things on his neck ARE gills, and the Brazil photo is part of the final advertising design-- Deal with it.

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaFeb-26-2014 10:05 PM

@Akagi

Do you think tokustatsu will ever make a comeback? I'm rather skeptical, personally. But... like you said... #wishfulthinking

@Valkorin

I think you mean "symbolism." Symbology is the study of symbols. That doesn't make a lot of sense. In any case it's hard to take away any symbolism in the trailer without a proper context of the scene. You could be right, but as of now any metaphors are purely speculative.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Cryolophosaurus

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 10:43 PM

Can I just say that this is one of the worst derailed train wrecked of a thread iv ever made I meen there are only two or three post's on here that acctualy talk about the thread at hand, huh but I digress they were kinda fun opinion shares.

 

                                         RANDOM GIF

" It is better to be reviled than ignored, agleast then you know your spreading good in this world." 

Reggie1138

MemberMothra LarvaeFeb-26-2014 11:38 PM

I'm sorry I didn't mean any disrespect when I used the word "Nostalgia" I was just trying to say that sometimes it's hard to except when things we've grown up with change and evolve into something different and fresh. I've loved this character since I was a small child 5 or 6 years old I believe. It's one of the few connections I have remaining  to my dad may he rest in peace. I grew up in a single  parent home for the most part and on the rare days I actually got to spend time with my dad as a child he would introduce me to sci-fi movie such as Godzilla, Star Wars, Star Trek, Close Encounters,etc,etc. So these films hold a special place in my heart. They basically molded me into the 43 year old kid I am today. I still go to movies with the same sense of wonder that I did when I was a child or teen. I've always wanted to see Godzilla "Westernized" if you will. That's not to say that we're better we're just different in our approach to art. I want to see what we could add to this character if we take it seriously and treat it with respect. I'm just happy that appears to be what's going on with this film. 1998 left a really bad taste in my mouth. As a fan that waited so long for that to happen I felt sucker punched with what I got. I also felt that there were people who were seeing Godzilla for the first time that were being cheated and not being given a true Godzilla movie to judge. It felt like a misrepresentation. My point on cgi vs. suitmation was simply this. Let's blow the lid off this time and truly bring this character to a whole new level let's see him in a movie where we are only limited by the filmmaker's imagination not the tools of the trade itself.

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