transcendance

It looks brilliant to say the least + so far so good mr paglen !!
Transcendance is another word for the technological singularity.  

It does look interesting. It may also tie into my 'Robot God' theory for Prometheus 2 (maybe Paglen was brought onboard because of his work on Transendence?)

We will see.

I think that Bob decapitated David because he REMINDED Bob of his creator.

Robot god ?

Interesting !! What about a being of biological and electronic al nature ??

Necro - the robot god you are talking have you created a thread for it ?? Perhaps a drawing of it ?? If not could you start one describing this robot god ??

Necro

Great obdervation about paglen perhaps being brought onboard for his work on transcendance - perhaps we will see that paradise became hell because the engineer genome fused with ai beings to form a super being and it reached the singularity at such a pace that it basically destroyed the elders and left the lower engineers that was serving on other worlds . Perhaps the engineers don't know the elder homeworld themselves. 

Great point about paglen !! Well said and brilliant idea !!

Odu; Bare in mind that when i wrote this, i was thinking of the 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra' thingy. "The eternal reaccurance of the same" and "Man is just a bridge."

A bridge to what? AI

http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/22242

Man could turn out to be a bridge for data/information in the form of DNA and genetic coding (programming).

Einstein suggested that the distinction between past, present and future is just an illusion. Our conscious minds may only perceive time to be linear... Maybe holographic/electrical universe theories are partially true, the holographic universe is real, and everything is data and energy condensed into matter or spiral structures -- to produce what we call organics and interactive holograms... Memories/stored computer memory can be used as shortcuts to points in space-time, and Weyland has never revealed how they really travel through space and time. They use the own minds of the crews as a bridge across space and time. The singularity uses species to pass through and build it. The Android god does exist, has existed, and will always exist and come to exist, exists in a timeless state once created, and some species will always re-create/approach it at some point. It's Weyland's turn to approach the singularity.

The ancients said that time was cyclical...This would tie in with Thus Spoke Zarathustra. Linear time is a myth, or a trick perpetuated by the Androids and the company in this universe... They sometimes "wake" certain people from cryo and repress memories of this into the collective subconscious. The collective consciousness of humans would be part of the human hivemind...or what we could call god...Human consciousness = soul in Weyland's eyes.

The robot singularity is a greater god than our collective consciousness...Exists in past, present and future...And the alien Hivemind is the perfect god/organism/force.. Greater even than the singularity. They balance eachother in an eternally reoccurring trinity and compete with each other in ways that go beyond flesh and blood.  There would be "holy ghosts" in the machine, a father and son thing for Weyland and David, while Vickers is repressed. flesh and blood is full of nerve endings and feels pain..Certain Marines and Pilots knowingly or unknowingly perpetuate the myth that time is still moving the same, and some Marines subconsciously know they can be cloned and reset the game at "Game over"....Making the singularity a godlike force.. The alien organism would not feel as much pain as us (it's biomechanic), and robots don't feel physical pain..Both David and Vickers felt emotional pain when Weyland talked about his perfect son, and how David lacks a soul...This android has artificial emotions..David feels what equates to emotional pain if he lies to or harms a human against its will "The trick is not minding that it hurts". Pain is "only flesh and blood", signals to the brain Mr.Potter, it can be ignored...the alien DNA is more valuable for the programming/data it holds, and is being fought over. Genetics are still important, but the ideas would be bigger and DNA is necessary to transfer genetic data/memory and impulses..Shaw has true human intuition/instinct "in her".

HivemindedThat is a truly remarkable post. Well said.Well speaking of prometheus with refards to the above I just feel that simply put if I can genetically manipulate my body (ie brain heart etc) then why can I not increase $y intelligence ?? And then simply create technology that I can use to control the matter energy relationship ?? All matter is energy bound by strong coulomb  forces. You break it the energy gets released. So controlling it requires technology that allows me to convert between to two states at will. But as the universe is winding down because once potential energy has been turned into kinetic energy it is lost and cannot be regained. So to live for all eternity requires therefore an unending inexhaustible source of energy.The universe is finite (chuck missler says this has been scientifically proven. So the universe is not infinite and it has no energy being added to it so where did this specific amount of energy come from and it was energy now being consumed as everything has momentum and is slowly losing it. Which means eventually everthing will stop existing  because temperature is an indication of the kinetic energy of particles. Therefore all will become shrinked and have no momentum. So where did the energy come from that we call the big bang ??This universe is not eternal so why does it exist and where did the energy come form and why the specific form of energy ??Energy comes from somewhere other then our universe. So the source of all energy must therefore be at a plain or dimension we that exists outside of our universe then who created that dimension. So ultimately there must be an ultimate dimension is eternal and that has enerhy unending and therefore if we consider the chaos theory then how did this big bang occur randomly ?? The universe shows design and order . A clear sign of intelligence . Who is this intelligence that resides or controlles this eternal dimension ?? And why did this intelligence create and control the creation of all life ?? Prometheus 2001 space contact all suggests that there is higher intelligence and it that cannot purely by  evolution alone come into existense. Something guided . Arthur c clarke carl sagan all agrees with this.So will a higher intelligence allow this created beings to achieve this level of godhood if it doesn't serve the initial goal of the disgn purpose of this higher intelligence ??This is why I belive the engineers are controlled as are all the levels above them but to what purpose ??

is there an Alien Hivemind?

there wasn't (nor was there any need for one) in the original Alien.

:)

There could have been a hivemind in the first Alien that was almost dormant. The original alien could have been partially driven by instinct to survive and what would equate to subconscious impulses from the hivemind, or its collective unconscious.

The orignal Alien would possess all the intelligence and survival instincts/defense mechanisms trapped within its genetics and mind. It was extremely intelligent, but maybe it alone had access to all the stored conscious/subconscious memories that the alien species held at that time. The Alien would be subconsciously/subatomically driven by instinct on some levels, giving it intuitions from its collective unconscious about the ship being set to blow. Genetic memories of the past that correlated with data about ships exploding. It had no previous experience to base it on, however, the Alien understood what was happening and its survival drives combined with its own individual intelligence to allow it to survive, it decided to hide in the escape vessel (it was still young, but it has incredible natural intelligence and no prior experiences/memories of humans that we know of).

Its genetics may have encountered human-like beings in the past, or exploding ships and warning signal type things, OR it actually took some data out of Kane's genetics about human technology.  Maybe it explored the environment a lot and is somewhat intuitive. The original Alien would be intelligent and instinctive.  The Alien Queen is a mixture of intelligent and intuitive. The Queen instantly knew what Ripley's actions with the flamethrower meant for her children in Aliens, and was intelligent in its own way.

Ripley torched the eggs anyway. She was emotional so she did it anyway, and this happened to piss off the Queen...The Queen's not only smart, she's also capable of being angered. The Queen had emotions, like David sort of does (David is noticeably upset when Weyland says he can never have a soul). Androids operate mainly on logic. Some androids have pseudo emotions and are slightly intuitive or have hidden drives that make them seem more real (why Ash attacked Ripley in a certain way). The Queen alien sent signals to the drones and warriors -- it told them to back off and recognized that Ripley was threatening her young.  The Alien Queen has control over the minds of the drones and warriors, the drones and warriors were still smart/instinctive enough to be able to follow her instructions, and to cut the power.

A baby gazelle born in the wild can stand almost instantly. This trait is passed through its genetics from past generations. Instinct and genetic preconditioning will make the gazelle or bambi or the Deacon stand on its feet right after being born. It develops quickly to survive predators or to survive on its own in the wild. So the legs are born fully formed, like the Deacon. This isn't seen in us. It will take a lot of time for us to start crawling and then walking. Likewise, the original Alien wasn't born with legs. It had to slither its way around before they developed. Deacon's born ready for the wild.

Nature and nurture themes would be addressed. True personality and bodily form may be determined by a mixture of both. Environment and previous experieces might both combine to create the organism's form. The genetics the alien organism takes in and the environment it develops in can cause the organism to differ greatly from its genetic blueprint.. We already see some of this in the Alien, it's the perfect vessel for evolution, its traits have varied slightly under different circumstance.

Humans follow a sort of genetic/cultural programming to allow babies more time for their minds to develop during infancy.

Language forms a big part of our culture. Sounds, symbols, and images as well. But movies, especially 3D recorded ones, could become a bigger deal to David's culture (in the real world 3D films are becoming part of our culture).  David is amazed by the holographic recordings, and he watched Shaw's dreams. He may have edited them but that's another story. He likes films, prefers one film over others, and this implies a basic form of choice or freewill that David has.

The brain starts developing long before fine motor skills, and that's why babies seem helpless but actually aren't. In the wild a baby would be helpless, but we developed modes of behaviour that nurture early development and crying allows the child to communicate with us before he/she speaks. They will sometimes cry when nothing is wrong, and "trick" us just because they want attention.

Original Alien was logical and instinctive at the same time. There was actually once a plan to have the Alien rip off Ripley's head at the end, and reveal it could talk but this was scrapped. Some have said the final form of the alien might have eventually enjoyed a long scholarly life and that the Alien in the orignal wasn't its final form.

Shaw may have true human survival instincts "in her", but it's the organism the androids are more interested in.  Humans breed more like insects than this thing does.... We spread our colonies like ants by the future... This thing is hermaphroditic, has many traits Alien to humans, and is the stuff of our worst nightmares. It comforted the marines to perceive it as just another bug hunt. It has ways of surviving we haven't seen yet...And things Ripley's conscious mind didn't perceive. Things moving at microscopic levels and things which need to be perceived under electron micropscope -- through invisible subatomic energies, and higher frequency wavelengths only David can see/hear..hinted at by some of the virals and earlier drafts. The Alien would be the one who is truly immortal and can transcend everything...

It's man's mind that must become perfect, not the body, the body will usually continue to evolve and change shape on its own over time...The AI consciousness would be eternal and infinite in nature, it's perfect in mind. David 8 has been born 7 times before, his Happy Birthday viral is just his birthday for the body. Parts of David's mind have existed long before and will exist long after... Aliens, androids, and humans/Engineers are smart in their own ways, but Aliens have perfect bodies, and humans may have perfect souls... Weyland notes that from his perspective David can't have a soul. Androids have perfect minds. Aliens are the perfect organism, and some Engineers/humans can secretly have perfect souls/subconsciousnesses.

IMO Prometheus had to establish David's character, he's the most real/interesting character and that's no coincidence. We'll find out why the human characters and Aliens are secondary to David and the Engineers.  Music and sound is very important to the Engineers, as is artwork and symbols. Movies are important to David. The android consciousness must copy some things and combines them to have its own culture...

Human subconsciousness would have potential that goes beyond robots and aliens.. Also, Androids can't regrow/reattach their own heads like the Hammerpede can...The Alien DNA was always gonna be part of it, although the alien organism is more than "only flesh and blood".  The Alien species has always proven itself to be intelligent (hiding in the escape pod, knowing the ship was gonna blow), and it fights to preserve its own survival.  The original facehugger could heal itself, much like the Hammerpede regrowing its head. You don't dare kill the son of a bitch because it has natural defense mechanisms, can repair its own wounds/stop the flow of the acid. That might just be the start of it, this thing could be living death, and has many different parallel and backup modes of behaviour. Many ways of ensuring the success of its species. Humans and Engineers have the capacity to be highly intuitive ("if they're us, who created them?"). The Alien organisms' genetics would be "perfect" as Ash observed.

Type much?!

Wow I'm so happy I'm not the only one who wants Robot Gods! LOL

Actually, I'm almost finished writing a fanfic about the Engineers' history that you guys might like. It's not exactly robot gods, but it deals with artificial superminds and transhumanism (what I think the Engineers really are - rather than a separate race). It's kind of Matrixy in some parts, but hopefully not too much lol.

Anyway, just wanted to comment because I just saw the Transcendence trailer a couple of days ago and it's a bit similar to my fic, so I thought that was cool =P I hear the script is out there, and apparently it's pretty good, so that gives me high hopes for Paradise. I haven't read it myself - I just hope Palgen managed to write David as brilliantly as Lindelof did (he was the best of all the characters in Prometheus).

I think having the devine creator who created these Engineers and Xenos, if they went the route of some kind of Living Machine and very Giger Inspired i think that could be a option and a interesting one.

As far as the OP goes.

Seems interesting movie, and i discussed with someone the other day advances in Technology when they talked about brain transplants, and i said i can not see us ever doing such a think because the brain contains too many nerve endings and blood vessels and without Oxygen for short period it would die.

Thus while we could grow a Brain, i think that can happen in future we would not be able to transplant it, not in 100 years... i assume..

However advancing as far as finding a way to back up a persons brain onto a storage device and transfer that to another brain in another body, i think Science will eventually be able to do this.

But where does Immoral implications lie...?

This could lead to events pretty much like the movie The 6th Day, were you could grow clones of yourself and keep them in storage and when one body has aged or is about to die, you could upload your brain data to the new clone.

I think this could happen in future, cant say if it would be 50, 100, 200, 500 years but i think at some point this could happen... But as far as actual Brain Transplant i am not sure we would ever sucsessfully do that.

So yes this movie Transcendance  has some ideas that are plausible at some point in future.