Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 11:50 AMOkay, I've been looking through the Internet and I found many different places saying that Torvosaurus had a mostly complete maxilla found in Portugal that would say it is around 40 feet long. Now, using the estimated skull length (158 cm) I compared it to the American Torvosaurus estimated skull length (118 cm) and uses fractions, cross multiplication, and a calculator to figure out that the bone belongs to a 40.17 foot long Torvosaurus. Now for the weight. If I just use an increment of weight and size, then I'll get a 4 ton max for this guy using the American Torvo as a reference (with the highest estimate at 3 tons). But, that's not how animals work. Bones would need to thicken, skulls would be heavier, you would have more blood, more organs, more muscle, and you would need more the heavier you are. So, there is a small self sustaining increment in the bone and muscle that finally goes away, and you should get another ton out of it. So 5 tons. Then I got thinking, the maxilla is a lot thicker than the one of the American Torvosaurus, so I would assume it would be thicker too. Maybe it adds another half ton or so, because I would assume that the body gets thicker when the skull does. Maybe around 5.5 tons. Then I got comparing Torvosaurus to Allosaurus. Allosaurus is about as heavy as Torvosaurus, and yet it is thinner? That doesn't make sense, so maybe the American Torvo is around 4 tons, which would give the maxilla Torvo more than just the extra ton, like I said. Nature doesn't work that way. It will probably end up at around 6.8-7 tons. Well, that's all I have to say.
[img]http://www.nature.com/srep/2013/130530/srep01924/images_article/srep01924-f1.jpg[/img]
Torvosaurus Maxilla
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XaQKcSvY7A0/UF2-S2x-sxI/AAAAAAAABHQ/YV0Nt2JZx3k/s512/tyrannosaurus-torvosaurus.png[/img]
T. rex and Torvossurus skull comparison
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 11:53 AMOops, this is the second time something like this has happened to me.
DinoSteve93
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 11:58 AMOverall there are some good results, a few things I don't agree though:
1-I don't think the american Torvo could be a great comparison, as they lived in different areas, climates, hunted different preys, etc...;
2-I thought calculating weight would mean calculating at the same time organs, blood, and stuff. By 4 tons, what would you mean: bones? While your right in "bigger you are, you need more than heavier you are", I don't think organs and stuff could add a ton! Don't forget a ton is a lot of weight!;
Anyway, those are your thought, and I respect them, so good work, althought I don't agree ;)
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Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 11:58 AMYou mentioned comparing it to Allosaurus. Not so sure that's a good idea. Allosaurus and Torvosaurus were not very closely related, so Allosaurus does really make for a good comparison. Allosaurs overall tend to be lightweight. '
My Torvosaurus sizes
American- 26-30 ft(8-9 meters) and 1.5-2.5 tons
European Average- 33-36 ft(10-11 meters) and 3-4 tons
European Max- 40 ft(12 meters) and 5 tons
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
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Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 12:00 PMExactly, I know allosaurus is lightweight. That's why I said that a Torvosaurus and allosaurus being the same weight, no, just no. Torvo has to be heavier than that. Also Dinosteve, I was talking about extra bone, blood, tissue from extra muscle, extra fat, extra skull, extra organs, basically, extra everything. All that adds up.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 12:04 PMJust because an animal is bigger, does not mean it gets extra body parts. Those stay the same. They just get slightly bigger. They don't get extra.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
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DinoSteve93
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 12:07 PMExactly, they give extra weight, surely, but not 1-2 tons. That would be as much as a black rhino. That's a lot of flesh!
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Eustreptospondylus
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 12:29 PMI see Torvosaurus being able to reach around 38-40 ft. and about 4.5 -5 tons it's definitely possible, But didn't they say that the Portuguese maxilla was actually more around 120cm?
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 12:35 PMThat is possible. Many finds are often downsized after further study.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
DinoSteve93
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 12:47 PMTrue. Hmmm... I remember of the new Torvo skull, I red about it somewhere...
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Eustreptospondylus
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 12:56 PMI'm not bashing Torvo or anything Here's a photo [img]https://bejpbq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pFmVX0grHiXQw70gHD9jnx1ezi1d4SjZp2osdx0Xi0UBSHe0fOJd4jWul2YyJrGY3gxfT_px4WlytnkFu95oi-iuJHG5qdOk8/EuroTorvo.jpg?psid=1[/img]
I mean this isn't 100% reliable but I think i remember reading about it somewhere else too. I think it would be awesome if Torvo had a skull 158cm big. He would be huge! But it just doesn't seem that way. either way though this still means Torvo was around 35ft. long which is still a tremendous predator.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 12:58 PMI'm not bashing Torvosaurus either. It was among the largest predators of the late Jurassic. But I don't think it got bigger than 36 ft(11 meters).
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
DinoSteve93
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 12:58 PMI think that's the pic:
[img]https://public.bn1.livefilestore.com/y2p5qBYWKZkgexIxE2XyVjRGU_zYywnzoTv-_ucnm3KcSdAhTqzCJ4mbwU5llfFz-ZGqDCKWQBjk9v_bDiW-pN1rx3qdDS_MTc_iry96NtxkWg/EuroTorvo.jpgpsid=1&rdrts=59165528[/img]
Hope it works
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DinoSteve93
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 12:59 PMNope, it doesn't work.
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Eustreptospondylus
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 1:02 PMI do remember however reading about some footprints that were made that were attributed to Torvosaurus. These footprints indicated an animal of around 38-40ft. so it's entirely possible that it was capable of reaching that size. Even if footprints are not too reliable it still shows SOME evidence of Torvo reaching that size.
DinoSteve93
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 1:04 PMWell, it could be. However, my max for it is still 4,5-5,5t.
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Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 1:04 PMWell, the footprints may not even belong to Torvosaurus. Matching footprints with a dinosaur is very hard to do. Plus the prints could be distorted or changed in some way.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Eustreptospondylus
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 1:11 PMI know that's why i said they're not the most reliable source. It's just the prints were attributed to torvo and showed an animal (possibly) of that size.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 1:17 PMUnderstandable Eustreptospondylus :)
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
DinoSteve93
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2013 1:22 PMGood points both of you. BTW, Torvo is an amazing dinosaur, and my fav megalosaur
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Lord Vader
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-15-2013 6:36 PMInteresting. I have Torvosaurus as about 40 feet and 5 tons personally, I may have it at 6 in New World though. Not sure how big, but around there.
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