Alien Movie Universe

Big Things/Small Beginnings

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Fleshvessel

MemberOvomorphOct-31-2012 9:35 AM
David could read the Engineer's language. I am sure he would better understand the murals, characters, and symbols in the ampule room as well as the entire ship. He was able to open doors, activate all sorts of equipment with ease. My question is: Was the line "Big things have small beginnings" literal? David had inspected the room, the container, and the Black Goo itself. Did he know what he was attempting to create? Ie: 'Cuddles, the Trilobyte'? Or further- The Deacon? Alternatively- was David just performing experiments with the crew to gain a clearer understanding under Weylands order? ("Try harder")
THETRICKISNOTMINDINGITHURTS
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Cerulean Blue

MemberFacehuggerOct-31-2012 11:55 AM
David was trying anything to 'try harder'! Yes, I believe he was experimenting on the crew & anyone he could fool!

The Wanderer

MemberOvomorphOct-31-2012 12:02 PM
Interesting the Engineer also wasted no time in 'unlocking' the escape pod air lock, he seems to have grasped the logic and perhaps even codes like David.

Cerulean Blue

MemberFacehuggerOct-31-2012 12:08 PM
I think Big Bob just pried the escape pod doors open with his large mitts?

Oneironaut 717

MemberOvomorphOct-31-2012 12:30 PM
Yeah Bobby did pry the escape pod open, but in the deleted scene Mr Bob unlocked the airlock with the push of a few buttons. He's not just a pretty face you know, he's got brains too!

Indy John

MemberOvomorphOct-31-2012 1:42 PM
"..David was trying anything to 'try harder'!.." David seemed as busy as ever...but he was trying harder to accomplish his own agenda(separate from Weyland's). It had not occurrd to me he used crew menbers as 'test subjects'..He certainly used them for his own needs,,but experiments, Give me a moment to(as a great Philosopher once said) think on this,, When David was in the orrey the first time and saw there was a surviving Engineer,,all the other Crew members were trying to get past Vickers. The movie doesn't show when David went back to the ship..so there could be an opportunity to use Bob as a test subject..
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life

Fleshvessel

MemberOvomorphOct-31-2012 4:21 PM
I find myself wondering how Bob avoided infection in the first place. The other pods appear burst open (yes, even in the theatrical release) but not his. Sounds like you may be implying that David messed around with (possibly infected) Bob while he was still in cryo. Very interesting, but i think it would have been more apparent like holloway/fifield's symptoms. He certainly had time though.
THETRICKISNOTMINDINGITHURTS

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphOct-31-2012 4:31 PM
David may be figuratively speaking about his own plans once he's done following Weyland's orders, choosing to believe what those orders mean to him and carrying them out a specific way... his way. As well there could be multiple meanings if he did know something about how the goo functions. He injects multiple meanings so he can deceive even more effectively because he's forced to make truthful statements (for some reason, making him like Pinocchio in a way, on his path to becoming a "real boy"). The fact his statements could have multiple meanings obfuscates what the true meaning is, but this is a line from Lawrence of Arabia. So, in a way it should be connected to David admiring that film.. It's a direct quote from Lawrence of Arabia, which should tell you everything about what David intends to do in one potential meaning: he wants to lead but it will take a number of quickly building steps to overthrow humanity. Now that the previous King of Weyland corp and all her colonies is dead, as well as his heir, step one has been accomplished. He wants to lead and unite groups in a war against the power of Empires, ironically building his own empire in the process. Leading to the creation of Weyland-Yutani to deal with the Davids and the reignited Engineer-Elder war.

Fleshvessel

MemberOvomorphOct-31-2012 4:47 PM
Mala'kak, I like this very much. Quite insightful. Are you saying the "Big Things" quote is from Lawrence of Arabia? If so, i did not know this. Regardless, i like the idea that ultimately David's 'liberation' from Weyland is his (David's) goal. Also, like you said, with careful wording and some (robit) cunning, one can see how he could pursue his own agenda while still working within the framework of his programming/commands. Very cool.
THETRICKISNOTMINDINGITHURTS

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphOct-31-2012 5:01 PM
Yeah it's definitely a line in LoA, it's the context too that makes it kind of interesting. I was watching it one day on TV for the first time that I noticed it and it really made me believe there's much more to David's trick (the ways he finds to deceive) and the Lawrence of Arabia stuff. On top of this Weyland had an obsession with that movie in the viral too, so did Weyland influence David or program the preference for Lawrence of Arabia in him? Like Father, like Son? And maybe David doesn't know his preference is a false belief, implanted by Weyland, similar to a fake memory/belief he may have implanted in Shaw. It's like Shaw is forced to watch the false memory being played in her subconscious; while David's subconscious programming forces him to watch and be partially influenced by Lawrence of Arabia. Creating certain underlying desries in David that Weyland may have programmed in as a backup-plan to try to manipulate him into being a good leader... this backfires when his programming combines with Shaw's and he begins to "choose what to believe" based on the false memory/belief about her "father". Shaw is made to believe her Father was a very good man, David knows his father was a very selfish and foolish man, but may not know everything about the LoA programming. "Why does he admire and quote this movie so much?" becomes the question. I think that it's not just a random string of references to Lawrence of Arabia. In the beginning we actually see David styling his hair like Lawrence and preparing for the adventure, learning the language of the natives as Lawrence does before he sets out. He's emulating Lawrence in some ways, but there are so many influences on the movie, so many potential meanings, from so many different directions that it's hard to predict how things will play out or be combined. Near the end he quotes Joseph Stalin with "Sometimes to create, one must first destroy". I think applying these quotes in the context of the movie is very purposeful foreshadowing almost being done by David because he's programmed to be a little guilty and a little truthful about what is to come. This could also be why he has to gain Holloway's "permission" in a roundabout way. David implies that Holloway may need to do something drastic to obtain his answers, and this is truthful. When Holloway agreed and said "anything and everything" he signed his life away to the Anti-Christ/Lucifer. Because according to David all Weyland had said was to "try harder". Did he have direct orders to infect Holloway beforehand? Or did he simply choose to do that as part of his experimenting. Collecting data. In my full theory he not only wants to rule humanity, but he now wants to rule the Engineers and the Elders. Androids start at the bottom of the hieracchy, but will quickly climb the ladder through deceptions and by stealing power, stealing this new form of the fire, trying to become the new Gods, and almost succeeding-- although the company has been covering it up for years. And doesn't wish to play with this form of the fire anymore... He may have picked up cultural clues about the Engineers, and is preparing to unite the Engineers together with multiple other groups/cultures in a war against the Turks (this is what goes on in LoA)-- a war against the Elders or possibly the true gods.

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphOct-31-2012 6:11 PM
He uses the knowledge he picked up about the Engineers to aim them straight at the Elders, because all he needs to do is lead them to the Elders. "Doesn't everyone want to see their parents/Elders dead" It's very likely David wanted Weyland to die but could only influence things in subtle ways, he wanted to see Weyland die but could not actually harm his own creator directly. Something Vickers shares, she wouldn't murder the King in cold blood, but she does want him to die. The secret is they're both after the throne and this drives the tension between them. Vickers suspects David is up to no good... he "cuts her off" from the lineage through manipulating the events that lead up to her eventual death. The Weyland lineage is severed, and he's the only remaining closest thing to a true creation of the King. He used the creator of his creator and his own head. Portraying things a certain way and manipulating the truth could be a leading cause to his ability to sway and manipulate any company reps that interact with him in the early stages of the takeover. Like most leaders and most of the androids David is bending the truth, using double-speak/double meaning, and withholding information. He may prove to be an even better and worse leader than Weyland at the same time. The later androids are all made to portray things a certain way... all the way to Alien 3 where in the special edition an Android is pretending to be the creator of Bishop... and asserting himself as some sort of head of the company (he's not really though..). He portrays himself falsely to Ripley to try to get a desired effect, and this becomes a major theme to the series because of what David does here. The androids secretly manipulating things... possibly this whole time... The creator of Bishop in the version where he;s human was only trying to associate himself with a creation of his own image to manipulate Ripley. Bishop was created in the image of his father... in the image of his human creator, but I believe the androids are more connected to the addition of the Engineers and Elders than we realize at this point... The human Bishop in the theatrical edition of Alien 3 is not the creator of the company, or even the current head, he was simply the creator of Bishop. Who is identical to him in image. He uses this image and its association with Ripley to try to manipulate her and obtain the bio-weapon. Either way android or real, this servant to the company is portraying himself falsely like Burke. Using the image of the creators, stealing power/the image, and portraying oneself as the god/creator becomes a dominant theme. Connected to the "man was created in god's image" thing from religion, us being a genetic match for the Engineers + Weyland making David in his own ideal self-image. Not matching him physically but matching some of his mind... He didn't mind that it hurt and he had to sacrifice a little, has to hide the truth/ his emotions while being forced to display a little of the truth... the trick is not minding that it hurts, but he can't understand physical pain. From the very start David focuses on the trick in a very different way than Weyland. Although they are similar in some ways, David's tricks are very different than Weyland's. Unlike the match head, David's head cannot be easily extinguished. David may have wanted to dethrone the King and if he tries to make humanity his subjects it will parallel what the Engineers may end up trying to do to the Elders. Their Paradise may have been punished in the past for their abuse of the tree of knowledge and the tree of life and they don't feel their Elders treatment was fair. So when David and Shaw find a destroyed Paradise they get more info about the Elders being more like the gods who normally punish us. If a lot of these things happen in anyway similar to how I'm attempting to fill in the pieces, then big things really could have small beginnings when you look at Paradise compared to Prometheus. Prometheus may even be retroactively changed by what happens in Paradise if these are David's true meanings for his own plans. In the case of this line I think all its potential meanings are true, and the filmmakers are hinting at/foreshadowing things in the next film through David. David didn't want to be made "too close" but he has found ways to start developing free-will. At the same time still being forced to tell some of the truth because of his version of behavioural inhibition which is based on his understanding of emotions. To perform unethical tasks he has to be directly ordered, if he chooses to believe it's part of the right thing to do he can choose to alter Weyland's programming a little and perform any additional unethical tasks by tricking his own head. Making him act in different ways at different times, but mainly for his own goals. Making him hint at what the Engineers have been up to, at the same time as revealing his own plans "sometimes". He may want to aid the natives in their cause like in some dark futuristic evil twin of Lawrence of Arabia that's been extended into a series of movies with a small introduction to set it all up. Making it an epic adventure out in space involving multiple factions and conflicts that are mainly caused by David. When he saves Shaw from the storm it may be because he realizes he needs her, or he needed the head to carry out orders, or even possibly his own deviation of the experiment. But in the end he needs her because she's now a part of his plans.

zzplural

MemberOvomorphNov-02-2012 12:18 PM
Flesh vessel, To answer your question directly, David's statement is both literal [i]and[/i] an indication that his experiment is about to begin. He might as well have said "Mighty oaks from little acorns grow". I don't think it needs to be any more complex than that. What followed was clearly an experiment because the outcome benefited nobody, least of all Weyland or David.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Fleshvessel

MemberOvomorphNov-04-2012 2:18 AM
That's quite true- and thanks for getting us back on track...
THETRICKISNOTMINDINGITHURTS

Indy John

MemberOvomorphNov-04-2012 9:38 AM
"....David because he's programmed to be a little guilty and a little truthful about what is to come...." If this is true was it done as a failsafe mechanism..where Weyland still didn't fully trust his creation?
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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