A79 Plot-Gap Solution

@Xenotron, the Company knew it wanted the alien long before Ash was telling them anything. That is why they covertly installed Ash before Nostromo departed from its last stop.

@shambs and odu.......will read them both....thank you. What do you think are the strongest possibilities.? Edit: @shambs.....I saw that before and liked it a lot but not sure on the timeline. @odu....what happened to the chest burster? There was no sign of it or a hatched egg when Nostromo arrived. Why was there only one engineer on board? Why is the air in the jugg not breathable? Surely the Engineers were smart enough to make one for their ships. Why did the Engineer send out a beacon that was not in the Engineer's language? Ash even said it wasn't a language at all.

@Rubirosa, Ridley has recently stated in interviews the ship on LV426 is within a couple hundred of years in age (give or take) with the ships on LV223.

Are you speaking about the original Alien universe we have all come to know. Or is this another of your parallel universes that you control and manipulate just to be different. Its been said so many times before by Ridley that the orginal Space Jockey is probably thousands and thousands of years old. You can even hear Dallas comment that the Space Jockey looks fosilized. You want to complicate the little information that we already know about the Space Jockey with your wild assumptions about Weyland corp having a huge hand in all of this. But I do have to admit that you have a great imagination.

I imagine that @oduodu refers to [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9755]this[/url] thread.

We also should keep in mind that Prometheus may never *flow* into A79. Weyland, when he speaks to the crew in the hologram, mentions that by the time they hear his speech, he will be long gone. Ridley also points out that relativity is at play where 2.5 years have passed for the crew, many more years have past for people not on board (the company on earth). He doesn't reveal how many years, but it is conceivable that by the time Prometheus gets to LV223, the events of A79 have already come and gone, and so Prometheus may have no real way to get to A79 temporally. Just a thought.

For the Weyland-Yutani piece......how about this...... When Peter and his daughter did not return it caused massive logistical battles for control over Weyland and after too many investors pulled out, Yutani offered a partnership. This is why Weyland-Yutani owned the Nostromo 30 years after 223.

@odu.....thanks for the response. I think we are seeing different versions of how the Company became aware of the derelict. Prometheus is in the Alien universe as 223 and 426 are in the same star system but A79 is as far as the connection goes for Prometheus in Paradise (my pet title). The events will be running along roughly the same time frame but independent of Ripley. I don't think anyone in the Company became aware of the derelict until after Peter failed to return and/or the Company received Shaw's message. Considering the Weyland empire, and the rag tag crew on Prometheus, Peter was probably seen as an eccentric, arrogant old fool chasing chicken scratches on old stone. However, someone in the Company became curious when the crew did not return. i believe the rest is explained in the OP. Here is the center of my position: the Xenomorph on 426 only happened after the human/engineer/trilobite orgy on 223. It was those set of unique circumstances that created the xenomorph and here is the kicker: it was done independent of the black goo. David fed Holloway the microchip, which was only one ingredient of the black goo. I guess Peter told him to hoping to see if it would create a superhuman or something close to an engineer or it was just a simple Ash -repeat for Peter to get it back to earth....but that doesn't really make sense either. Peter was only interested in living longer. We have to consider the possibility someone at the Company slipped a program Mickey into David on the off chance Shaw and Holloway were correct. Here is what we know: the Company as a whole did not know about the derelict and alien inside. It was only a select few. This is important because is shows the risk they were willing to take by sending Nostromo to 426. I believe they took that risk because Nostromo was the closest ship under their control. This is my first time doing this as well but I like the brainstorming, no matter how silly it may seem to the experts.

Are they moving at light speed? I don't know. Ridley said this was a very loose prequel to A79 so everything wont match up exactly and we also know he said the significance is the end of Prometheus has the DNA attaching itself to the first alien. We also know Weyland wasn't actually dead. From my understanding, the time in stasis is the same time they are awake. It's just a way to avoid 2 years of boredom.

Well it doesnt seem Ridley is holding too close to speed of travel implications because he has been pretty clear Prometheus happens prior to A79. Plus, I suspect the reason they state the year at the beginning of the movie is to show it happens before A79, which is also supported by Ridley saying Prometheus is a prequel to A79.

Agreed. And it could be argued that when Shaw mentions it's New Years 2094, it really isn't. It's only 2094 to her. In fact, technically she would know exactly what earth year it is. I'm sure that would be a simple calculation. Perhaps an oops on the part of Ridley? Strange since he acknowledges the relativity part in his DC.

They have *faster* than light travel. They went approximately 34 light years in 2.5 years. Relativity says (with our current understanding) that anything with mass can't travel *at* the speed of light since the mass of the traveler would go to infinity. Also at the speed of light time moves forward infinitely fast relative to the traveler, so earth would be infinitely far into the future. From earth's perspective, the Prometheus comes to a stand still at the speed of light. It's motionless. Hard to imagine, but true. Anyway, faster than light travel has strange implications that defy logic, but it's a science fiction movie after all. Weyland wasn't dead because he was aboard the ship, and since the movie is following the timeline of the ship, not earth's, we see him alive after only 2.5 years in stasis. Stasis isn't so much to avoid boredom, but more to save resources like air, food, water, etc. that would be needed otherwise.

Humm The eggs were under a stasys field, so that is why they kept viable...we do not even know how many were actually viable. The ship being there for over 2000 years is something explained even by Ridley Scott himself. But anyway congrats for imagination, I like that, but not the concept. We already took so much off the original Space Jockey...

If they were in stasis how did they get out to kill the space jockey? Being in stasis does not negate my theory by any means. the Company could have put them in stasis before leaving LV 426. Ridley may have said the ship was there for two thousand years but how many people do you believe know that? If my scenario were played out I'm confident more than 80% of viewers would not know that. Ridley said he wants to use the space jockey as a catalyst and that is why I thought of a scenario.

Another plot twist could be the Engineers had several androids in the Company. This is how they maintained close surveillance of humans without revealing themselves.

I posted a plot here in this [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/10518&page=3]Thread[/url] but just for fun.

The company wanted the organism in Alien because Ash was telling them all of the alien's physical properties through MUTHER. It's not necessary to explain anything.

Uneeque Hi there Simply out of curiosity : have you read the ambiguity questions started by snorkelbottom in the alien section ?

So when they arrived at LV223 and dated the dead guys, is that dating process affected by travel? Or is carbon dating fixed? If carbon dating is fixed, how can it transcend relativity calculations? I'm just an idiot so I have no idea how these things work. I always thought theory of relativity meant deciding who to invite to a family reunion.

Well, it wouldn't affect the dating equipment. When they report the engineers have been dead for 2000 years, that would be correct (assuming correct calibration). But how long ago did the events happen on LV223? It would be relative to who you want measure the time by, earth or Prometheus. If earth time passed 100 years, say, when Prometheus got to LV223, then the outbreak on LV223 happened 1900 years ago, not 2000, respective to earth. Relativity is strange because there isn't a universal time. You can't put everyone on the same timeframe. As you travel through space-time, you affect time.

I don't mean the equipment. I think you answered the question though...but it is mind bending and i only read a little bit in relation to the simulation hypothesis. It would be neat if Bostrom made a cameo in P2 knowing how much he advocates Peter's goals.

Uneeque The link shambs provided is the one I meant. Thanks shambs !! There is some fundamental questions that needs to be answered before I can really answer your question: These are 1 Is prometheus happening in the alien universe ? I believe it is because Ridley says that the jugg and the derelict are brother ships . We have the Weyland company though it is paired with Yutani in alien (actually Weylan company for Weylan Yutani) . 2 If prometheus is happening in the alien universe then is this universe including a2 to a4 ? Should we only look a1 Theatrical cut (TC) or a1 DC ? Why is this important ? Well I believe Weyland-Yutani discovered the derelict many years before the events of A1 . This discovery of the derelict was made by a deep space probe and then after photographs and scans reached earth and an android manned mission was sent to investigate . This android mission was able to land and then when an android was facehugged the android was returned to the ship and the resultant scans showed what was injected ? So why not return an egg to earth ? Create a humid nitrogen rich environment to convey the egg back to earth . After several attempts they failed to bring back an egg as it got triggered every time and decided to use a human host . They transported human cargo they hijacked (or maybe kidnapped people on earth ) and brought them to the derelict . They were hugged and saw the xenomorph die within an short space of time . They studied the dead xeno's and learned of their properties - biology - anatomy - physiology but to fully exploit the xenomorph they needed a live specimen on earth where they could study it in detail while it was alive with the best available equipment and DNA sequencing technology . So they needed to freeze a facehugged person and return it to earth to prevent the chestburster from chest bursting. Now they had another problem : plausible denial ability . If it did materialise that a person was infected and this was revealed after scans and testing when the mission returned to earth then Weyland-Yutani could say they had no idea what had haPpened . So what's my point ? Did Weyland-Yutani discover the attributes of the alien creature as it appertains to the queen lifecycle or egg morphing or both ? Did they discover the xenomorph ability to take traits from its host and incorporate it into itself ? If they knew all this : why did they bother to bring back a facehugged person to earth ? Why not simply use the black goo on lv 223 to get their own xenomorph on earth ? That is why I wonder if the two movies are really in the same universe although I believe they are. I also believe it was from the android manned mission that the technology on the derelict was studied and terra forming and faster than light technology was discovered and utilised by Weyland-Yutani . So if you answer the first question yes and also can provise a reason why Weyland-Yutani needed a facehugged person back on earth when they probably had the black goo from lv 223 then that would probably explain how prometheus ties in with a1 TC. Weyland-Yutani probably wanted to know the xenomorph characteristics as this would probably explain why the engineers decided to change the xeno's to a liquid form . Or perhaps by using backward engineering they could get a better idea of how the substance works that breaks xenomorph DNA down (as it did with the sacrificial engineer at the start of prometheus) and thereby harness it (the base liquid) for themselves. this base liquid is a virus and I also believe that it may be that the entire lifecycle of the xenomorph (egg facehugger adult xenomorph) has been broken down and added to the ampules on lv 223. If Weyland-Yutani could reverse engineer the xenomorph DNA of the full blown it might have helped them discover the original virus . That might have been more important than the xenomorph being a bio weapon. Ash seemed to know al lot about the xenomorph for someone who has seen it for the first time . Also when and why does Weyland-Yutani merge and exactly when was the decision made to send the nostromo ? Was the crew an "asshole" crew that Weyland-Yutani felt was the best choice to be disposed of ? also the Nostromo is huge and it would be difficult to catch the xenomorph and they had no weapons . I believe that there is a possibility that the beacon might actually only have been switched on for the purpose of getting the Nostromo to investigate and the contracts were changed to that end. I don't think the derelict and the jugg are the same ship . Where did the eggs come from ? Why would you have a ship with a cargo hold full of ampules and then also have stasis field rich with nitrogen for containing eggs that prevents them from being triggered ? Why both ? To me the ampules are a replacement for the eggs. I don t think a deacon turning into a queen would bother with evenly spacing the eggs in the stasis fields ? Ah you are referring to the Spaihts draft (or one of them ) where the derelict was the result of the last surviving engineer heading for earth with cargo hold full of eggs ? I think that was rejected by Ridley . I believe the the xenomorph chestbursting from the sj died within 24 to 36 hours after chestbursting . If it was a queen and able to survive why would only lay eggs in the stasis fields ? Then again you might be right !!! I also think that the xenomorph has intelligence . Doesn't it have a human brain in that human skull that you can see through the translucent skin ? But I also believe that its instincts that are very strong that will completely override its intelligence . Please note I am till very much a novice at all of this . There are guys here who's been at it for 15 years or more . At this point I hope that the 3d blu ray might provide many other insights. With all the extra stuff .

[i]Alien Strand[/i]....Uneeque, you trully hold this as a literal wording...but I feel you will have some disapointments there, if you really like these ideas you try to force upon the original story and keep changing and interpreting things just to fit your concept. The derelict ship, by Ridley Scott, has crashed/landed there a couple of centuries before or after the [i]demise of that engineer's base[/i], so it has been sitting there, sending its warning beacon set off by its Pilot for 2200 to 1800 years prior to events on Prometheus. You still keeps ignoring ideas already stablished for ALIEN and now starts to force your ideas with a support that twarts the little already known... I and some others worked alternate scenarios working with the material we saw in Prometheus and in the movie and Official Novelization (that you choose to ignore, but it is still Offcial) But keeping with the movies, ALIEN depicted a derelict ship with alien tech, using a stasis field not known to the crew, as they only saw a " kind of mist" over the eggs (otherwise they would use that instead of hypersleep) and it was there for a long time by Riddley's words then, and now he gave the date approximate for its demise, so probably the incident that killed that engineer might be connected or not with the installation fall, but happened around 2000 years back in the story. Do not try to twart what is already explained to support this xeno-fan idea of yours. I like original ideas, but then forcing a point by interpreting things without a serious thought and adjusting things freely to suit your concept does not fit into a real debate/exchange of ideas....

@voidhawk.....can you explain why you don't understand this is based on the film only? The best you can do to oppose my position is reference things that were not in the film itself. The ultimate proof you ignore what I actually state is the accusation I take "strands of alien dna" to be literal. I already said it is not literal.

So I apologise for that line And keep all the rest. The movie depicted a derelict ship that landed there thousands of years ago with alien tech, and the message described what was there (I know...movie movie...all the scenes related to that imply previous knowldge and the mission was to bring a xeno back to Earth to be studied by Weyland Bio-weapon's division. Ok, it is a possible scenario, but ultimately without a reason as such ruse would create more complications than any gain (plotwise, tow a whole ship to another moon and plant a beacon there, to gain exactly what? they could perform examinations on the first moon and to take everything off would be wasteful. I am thinking about plot reasons here....coherent reasons to such a ruse) I cannot see what this would entail, and does not explain things that in most part are already explained (message deciphered, not by ASH, but by THE COMPANY) and the the reason as to why they sent the Nostromo there. What needs to be explained is the reason for the ship to be there in the context of we knowing it is there since the fall of the engineer's installation. Its destination (as it was going to deploy its deadly cgo) and what really happened (was it taken down by sabotage, cgo mishandling or carelessness of the pilot?) I think they will tie it to the demise of that installation, but then they might even discover it is from a third species, the Real Space Jockeys, and the engineers might have stolen the cgo after that ship falling there...this is a scenario I posted in a more detailed way in the past...

Can you tell us the time mark in the movie where the Company decodes the beacon? In A79 they have no way of knowing how long the ship was there. They could only estimate the age of the ship. At the end of Prometheus David said there were many other ships. Upon the crew entering the atmosphere, they found the installation super quick. Either they were extremely lucky, or Promtheus in Paradise will show there are several installations on 223. I would say the main reason for towing the ship to LV426 would be to keep 223 as quiet as possible and to keep fallout at a minimum. An experiment gone awry is what wiped out the engineers so the Company learned from that and implemented a much more controlled policy.