Alien Movie Universe

Why call the xeno derived from the engineer a 'Deacon'?

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nostromo001

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 1:49 PM
I was curious about the use of the descriptive word 'Deacon' to refer to the so called proto-xeno, and thought I was missing something so researched the word and there is no derivation of the word that would suggest proto anything! Even non theological definitions would give 'an assistant' at best. The word "deacon" is derived from the Greek word diakonos (διάκονος),which translates as "servant", "waiting-man", "minister" or "messenger". So people need to come up with another word to describe the Engineer-derived xeno that bursts forth far more fully formed than the human chest burster and more like the canine-derived xeno from David Fincher's Alien 3. But in its defense, it was derived from a gigantic facehugger and apparently quite different than the later aliens discovered on LV 426 by the Nostromo 200 years later. Anyway I don't know who coined the word in this context but they are flat out wrong from what I could find.
[img]http://0.tqn.com/d/chemistry/1/0/E/1/1/chemistry-glassware.jpg[/img]
17 Replies

sukkal

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 1:53 PM
It's simply because of the shape of the head of the creature being reminiscent of the "pointy" head adornments worn by elite members of the religious aristocracy in Europe. It is a "working" title for the creature used by Ridley and the crew during development and production.

Voidhawk

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 2:11 PM
Ah, so that is why that title.... And Juggernaut? It is because that thing is almost indestructible? First resisting a full impact of a starship in full throtle, then falling and yet keeping its structural integrity even though internal damage occurred. Awesome engineering, and a real juggernaut...scary to face a fleet of such ships in battle.
[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/VoidHawk555/CORE-Copy.png[/IMG]

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 4:13 PM
I think it's definitely because of the religious association and the pointy head thing and how that ties in with some of the religious elements of the film. But I also believe it's very deliberate. It denotes a form of servitude to religion/the "gods"/higher beings Additionally it can represent a member of the clergy directly below, or beside a priest. As well it can be any of two members of a masonic lodge. So again, in its multiple meanings we see that this name may denote that the creature does not act alone. That it works with or for something else. Now religion is usually about creation, so my hunch is this thing can procreate on its own with the morphing life cycle and black goo properties (which are quite similar...) and it goes on to serve or work with the creature it spawns. It's another step towards completing the life-cycle, but this life cycle may function on procreation without the normal alien impregnation... Also, as a leading clergy member, when the priest class creature is created it would typically be male. And religion was a big part of a king or queens reign back in the day. The Deacon and/or assistant/servant to the priest class alien, and then ultimately the higher power, could be female or male. Because Deacons were female or male. The creature it spawns will act like a priest, and will be male. This means we'll be seeing ideas we haven't seen instead of a Queen laying eggs, it'll be an egg morphing son of a squid. The priest class works to spread the message of the alien genetics/creation and to serve the King. The Aliens don't know about separation of church and hive, because as a hive develops the queen develops an organized logical nest. As the king builds his hive/kingdom, he doesn't control his subjects in the same way. Or care about his chaotic subjects, because the new hives will function on a form of reproduction that is more chaotic, more direct, and ensures that each alien can reproduce until the female side of the genetics takes over. "A king has his reign and then he dies... it's inevitable" 1. (in hierarchical churches) a member of the clerical order next below that of a priest. 2. (in other churches) an appointed or elected officer having variously defined duties. 3. (in Freemasonry) either of two officers in a masonic lodge. If you add all these together you'll get a little bit about what I'm saying. It could also link in to themes about a hierarchy.

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 4:18 PM
The female hive features servants who follow their queen in a form of almost religious servitude. The king's hive will be more chaotic, and free of direct rule, although the other Aliens will still serve it almost religiously in a different way.

Voidhawk

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 5:00 PM
But....I hope to see no queens anymore... Actually no xenos anymore as well...
[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/VoidHawk555/CORE-Copy.png[/IMG]

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 5:34 PM
What if the King is a different way of approaching the life-cycle until a connection is made to the original film in the third movie? So we wouldn't ever see a queen, but it would be implied that once the king is gone it's the queens turn to rule. That the male form of the life cycle starts morphing people when eggs and a queen aren't present. Up until the point that the hive/kingdom takes a serious turn when the King dies. Leaving the followers to lean towards the females side. And then the egg laying method becomes dominant and the male side of the genetics are suppressed and contained withing the sexless drones, and the warriors. And that Kings only come about in certain circumstances where the genetics are more male leaning, coming out of the ultra male Engineers. It would be a side story to Alien all the way through that finally tells a little bit more about how the eggs eventually got on the derelict. Not dealing with queens at all but dealing with Kings and the dominance of the male side of things, which we've never really seen... and opens up many possibilities. Getting the best of both worlds. Giving the fans of the original what they wanted, but upping the ante with the Aliens in a way that connects to Ridley's original vision for the life cycle... Aliens that are linked to the egg morphing method Ridley may be resurrecting... and themes about Kings, Kingdoms and Empires that tie into the Engineers and their "maleness". They may have been genetically altered to produce more Testosterone all the time, and contain no estrogen. Which gives them their size/strength advantages and makes them a perfect servant or warrior class. Although sometimes uncontrollable. On some levels it's about control. The engineers tried to take the normal form of the xeno and make it into a controllable weapon, however this backfires and we end up with the Deacon. A hybrid of the Xeno genetics and the black liquid, using the morphing properties from each to return to an almost pure form by travelling through other organisms. When Holloway's infected sperm impregnated the infertile egg, it reanimated it and causes it to change and develop, still containing a predilection for the male side of things the organism it morphed: the sprerm. Even the sperm has the ability to change an egg once it comes into contact with it. So we have it not only born from the Engineer, but born from a number of male circumstances. Shaw's egg was dead-- meaning it took the infected sperm to reanimate it and cuddles could lean towards male genetics. (assuming Aliens have sexes, i.e. Queen + males, and that they are almost unisex (while being almost Hermaphroditic, containing both sexes) at times. The Engineers we've seen clearly so far are all male. All the identical copies of David are male, and all the "perfect" son. I think this trend will sort continue. And that like with the Engineers, most of the Aliens in this series will be male, or leaning towards the male side of things. Oh and much bigger, able to act in new and different ways because of the influence of the black liquid. It can now morph and reprogram even dead organic matter, like how Fifield was brought back to life... "Sometimes to create you must first destroy" Of course this works for the egg laying method to, but with egg morphing the Aliens are literally creating something new by destroying the being entirely, and transforming it completely. Egg morphing/ the morphing to create xenos works the same way as the goo. Only u need the Deacon/Regents to spread the genetics faster and morph all material... The morphing process breaks organic material down at a cellular level, and then rewrites the genetic code and combines it with the xeno genetics to rebuild the organism into something else. Something useful to the Alien species. So it wouldn't only be about egg morphing at first, because the egg laying trait is on the female side and is being suppressed until the King dies and a Queen is born that can take over the hive.

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 5:44 PM
This way we get something familiar in a new and different way we've never seen before. It doesn't step on anyone's toes if it connects to the Queen the way I think it does in the third movie, and can still be worked into the existing universe a little bit (Kings exist in the extended universe and Fox knows this but a King in Paradise would be much different). It's a way to not retread old ground too much while satisfying fans of the xeno with a familiar form, can explain the eggs/Jockey's story in a way, and continue with the themes about Kings and the coming themes about Empires, and what happens once a hive is established. It's like the way it's a prequel and not a prequel, an Alien movie and not an Alien movie because it will be all about new things, and won't shy away from dealing with the Deacon they've introduced, and the Engineers + everything that comes with them. It's still about the Engineers, as well as being very much about the death and birth of leaders, leaders and kingdoms/hives changing over time, and the aftereffects of what happens after a brilliant, prolific, yet chaotic/illogical king dies, and how that affects the hive/kingdom. The male side of the genetics is only able to come out fully because of the Engineers' genetic meddling. Similar to how they may be engineered to be super male, and to have the female side of the genetics taken out. A story about a part of the life cycle seldom seen.

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 6:25 PM
These Aliens may be seen feeding, before morphing what's left of the bodies they pile up, because their energy requirements are much higher given that they are larger, need food to grow, and grow to a massive size. Engineers used to be immune to being affected/ infected and morphed. After the outbreak the genetics grew unstable and and many were able to be infected, but a change never completely happened and they lost their heads. The new Aliens would be more instinctual as opposed to extremely intelligent. More based on reactions. Although like Shaw and David they would possess a weird mix of instinct/faith and knowledge/cunning. They would lean more towards the instinct/belief/chaos based side of things instead of the knowledge/order/science side that characters find themselves on each side of or straddling. Shaw leaning more on the instinct/belief based side, and David leaning more on the knowledge side (he has artificial feelings affecting his statements/belief). The male leaning side of the Alien genetics would be more illogical as opposed to logical.

BigDave

MemberDeaconSep-28-2012 8:52 PM
Well Alien had two Mystery's that interlinked. 1) Who was that Pilot, what Race was he. 2) Where did the Xeno come from and why? And it interlinked via why did the Pilot have those Eggs for what purpose. And thus i think after Prometheus maybe Ridley would leave another Mystery after he answers the others... That could be...... WHAT BECOMES OF THE DEACON? Ridley said he wants to steer away from Alien and the Xeno, and the Deacon may just be a plot device to show that the Engineers are connected to the Xeno via the Goo.... If Ridley explores the Deacon then it would surely be too similar to another Alien movie, never mind the plot hole... Mind you what becomes of LV 223 after Prometheus could be a massive plot hole that Ridley would have to address, as how does Weyland never seem to come across LV 223 from Alien to Alien Resurrection. Especially if its pretty close, surely when the company found the Derelict Warning Beacon and sent out a investigation then surely the Nostromo and which ever Ships have also been within the section of space would have also came across Shaws Message... at the very least the Ships that took the Colony Workers to Tera-Form LV 426 and even the Sulaco should have picked up Shaws transmission?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 8:58 PM
Have you ever seen a baby horse, giraffe, wildebeest or a similar animal being born? Have you ever seen the way they can stand up and walk within a very short time span, and are much more geared towards survival? It's a lot like the Deacon's "birth" Now think of the way the chest-burster in Alien slithers away as if it was almost a serpent. If theses types of animals are born in the wild their survival may depend on them being able to be born ready to walk. They also have to have highly developed evolutionary instincts to be able to survive apart from the parents in the wild and to fend for themselves. They have to get up and walking very, very fast. So, they and many other animals are much more, or only, geared towards a certain type of thinking. And that's a reactionary, instinct-based form of thinking that their brains are developed towards; making advanced brain development relatively unnecessary. It's much more evolutionarily advantageous for them to remain solely instinct based. with the aliens they would just lean one way or the other in this series and in the old series. But the people in the movie don't follow their instincts the right way because of their ego problems, symptoms of their culture, and a leader who deceives the flock. They're basically sheep, Holloway and Shaw were lambs, and David's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

BigDave

MemberDeaconSep-28-2012 9:11 PM
[b][i]"Giving the fans of the original what they wanted"[/i][/b] Well there are some fans of Alien who are also fans of Aliens and it not a case of you either like Alien or Aliens. I dont think Ridley is going to set out to discredit the Alien Queen or the other movies and try and show us that the Alien and Egg Morph is the only way the Alien Xeno works. I think the only way Ridley will touch upon the Xeno is that he may give us some clues and these may simply be via the Engineers speaking to David or even in a Mural or Glyphs that David can read. I thus dont expect to be shown visually much of the Xeno or details how it came to be. Like Janek stated that he assumes the base was a Weapons Facility and we have clues that suggest as such but it was never shown in any detail to be as such. Aside from Janeks Assumptions the movie was not showing LV 223 to be a Weapons Facility only when we look at the clues and connection with Alien Derelict and how the Xeno was a Bio Weapon do we know the Urns are also a Weapon. What i am saying is if any clue to the Xeno or LV 223 is to be given in future movies it may be a case of by word and not visual. Just like the Ghost Engineer scene, we see them running, we see the dead bodies and the holes in them and we see the one Engineer whos head got cut off had a infection. These are clues to what went down but the movie never once showed what they ran from, or what came out of the dead bodies or even showed us any of them getting infected. Just subtle clues was there so we can make a good assumption of whats gone down. I think we would get more clues and clues to the Xeno but again only in similar fashion. It could be a case that if the Engineers they find knew about LV 223 and the mission, that one may say something to David and Shaw asks what did he say. David could reply something like.... "they had this Organism that they came across Millenia Ago, this Organism they attempted to harvest as a Bio Weapon but it was flawed as it was deadly to control" "so they used the outpost on LV 223 to conduct experiments and ways of re-weaponizing the Bio Weapon so it was more efficient and safer to use" "and they was going to test their new improved Bio Weapon on Earth" Something like the above would be more likely than them show the process of how it happened etc. Just like we have not on screen visualy had the answers to how and why the Derelict crashed on LV 426. But we know what happened as Ridley has told us, and thats the Derelict was heading somewhere with the Cargo of Bio Weapons, when one of the Face Huggers got lose and got to the Pilot who then had to set down the Derelict on some baron moon close by so as to Quarantine the Cargo and set off a Warning. Ridley has covered this and said how long ago roughly, he has not shown it in a movie and may never do so, and he has not explained where it was going or how exactly did the Engineer manage to get Face Hugged.... i.e in his seat or did he go to investigate something.... (like maybe one of the stasis fields had failed so he went to look if he can fix it).

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 9:39 PM
By what the fans of the original wanted I'm being vague. I mean that we wanted to have some answers for that Space Jockeys story. What some people expected from the ambiguous trailers, because it appeared like it was the same craft crashing... but appearances can be deceiving and "we were so wrong" to think it was a direct prequel... with Ridley telling us it wasn't. And Ridley has been sticking to the program of not telling a complete lie like David... I'm just saying that it could all tie into that. And that the Aliens would only be stuck in egg morph mode because of the Engineers doings and that Queens could still come later. Have you ever seen what i was describing about those animals and the deacon, learning to stand instantly, and wondered why it takes human babies so long to develop the ability in comparison? The short answer is we're much more geared towards thinking; and we've developed a system of upbringing where the caregiver has to be present to teach things to the child. Human babies are like sponges: always soaking up new information, because the brain is doing much of its early development and allowing it time to learn and for complex systems neurological associations to be set up and intellectual plasticity. Because we're so reliant on complex, non-reactionary intelligence, & forward rational and logical thinking. At the same time we need a little bit of that other reactionary side and still have some instincts built in, only their altered and babies are born with the ability/instinct to suckle and to cry. Basic feeding and vocalization instincts geared towards the caregiver. With babies u can actually hold them and dangle their feet just on a flat surface and they will reflexively try to walk and take little steps. However, they can't yet because their minds start developing before than the rest of them. This leads me to believe we will be dealing with a creature that has a higher degree of instinct over intelligence in the next films. Not that the old ones didn't have sophisticated instincts, or that these will be mindless beasts, but that this thing will seem more chaotic, even though it's chaotic actions ensure its survival and reproduction. And that the hive of a Queen is a more logical, ordered, straight-forward and efficient way of reproduction in comparison. The advantages of being able to egg morph are many when numbers of aliens are low. An adult, non-queen alien can reproduce its genetics. Eggs can remain unopen for a while if no host is immediately available. It gets rid of the hosts quicker and less time is wasted mucking about with returning to the hive. It can function as protection... A queen is vulnerable if numbers are low because she has to remain still, and sits right in the center of the hives with the eggs. Not a problem when she is in control and has servants. The King can remain mobile, ensure its own safety, and can continue egg morphing until a queen comes about. Then it's sort of like the preying mantis/black widow form of organization... and even the King's legacy will be changed and seem to disappear. With egg morphing you get another egg and it needs a host-- but what it that's not the only thing now because of what Fifield was becoming, and now there's a 1:1 ratio making this form even more effective for starting a new hive. When they become high, the egg laying become the more efficient form of reproduction The egg morphing life cycle could usually be a fail safe for what happens when there's no eggs, no queen nearby and only one alien left.

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 10:15 PM
I'm sorry BigDave I usually agree with you on much that you post in some way because you have some very valuable insight. And some really excellent points. I always enjoy reading your posts, but imho there's no way that they would tease the Deacon at the end to not then have it at least show up somewhere down the road in some way. If it's on the mural it is a huge part of the culture. And if we're dealing with more Engineers and quite possibly wars between factions (see all the clues stemming from the Lawrence of Arabia stuff, and look at the plot progression of LoA) then the bio-weapon may continue to be glimpsed throughout. I think all the clues are there for us to figure out as much as we can before the sequel where we can test our theories. To see if we interpreted the evidence in the right, or wrong ways again... Ridley stated at one point that they wanted to leave questions so this type of discussion could go on and we could discuss the potential answers. Much that has already been guessed on this forum by you and others, and Paradise will provide "satisfaction" in almost every way imaginable. It's all about the encore. We also need to look for clues in the words of the filmmakers: those who have purposely deceived us, but are doing so to put us in the characters shoes. As has been mentioned a few times in regards to editing choices... Ridley had said he was done with the xenomorph but there it appeared at the end in a slightly different form, almost teasing a sequel about it because of the way it ends in a death and then a birth... Again sometimes to create you must first destroy. Ridley has killed the xeno as we know it, and created the Deacon from its broken down elements. He's done with the Xenomorph forever, but he's not done with the newly conceived Deacon... and his old vision for the life-cycle that went unused. And Now he's able to resurrect it. Because the Deacon is not the xenomorph necessarily, and Rildey said the creature was played out. The only way to move forward with it is to leave out Aliens as we know them, and do something more original with the basic elements of the creature. By destroying the xenomorph and recreating it. Why do you think the goo shares similarities and properties with the morphing based cycle? It's not only because the genetics are combined, diluted, and stored within it to make the bio-weapon more controllable. It's a clue in and of itself that the Deacon shares these traits. The black liquid can destroy life to then combine it with foreign genetics and rewrites the material on a cellular level into something new, just like with morphing. Ridley has just made it so his egg morphing cycles makes a little more sense... maybe I shouldn't call it egg morphing since no eggs will be involved this time, and victims get morphed a number of ways. It's all leading somewhere we just have to be able to read the clues the right way like David can. It's not about immortality, it's about death and RE-birth. New concepts, and relatively untouched concepts being used to bring interest back to a familiar form. Redesigning the xenomorph. Building the mystery about its new/old ways in the sequel. Upgrading it and killing any chance of us seeing the same played out tropes that we've already had 3 sequels of. You have to at least admit that if we do see more Deacons, then going this way and turning everything we thought we knew about the life-cycle on its head would be way better than seeing the Deacon again attacking the crew in normal fashion, and then queens and eggs.

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphSep-28-2012 10:29 PM
This first movie was a not-really-so small beginning intended to confuse, deceive, introduce, hint at, and leave people with certain expectations about the sequel and the answers to the questions. The sequel has been planned out in such a way as to provide too many answers... multiple answers and viewpoints to flood us with new info. To confuse us, and obfuscate the truth even more until the end. The campaign and trailers were a part of this e.g. Where's Yutani and some shots that never made it into the theatrical + the aforementioned Juggernaut-Derelict deception. They knew people would look at the way they cut it and think a certain way. have certain expectations. Only to shatter them +confuse & intrigue a lot of the people who loved the film. Ridley didn't mind "that his trick hurt" and there are a number of lines that work as meta-narrative. Actors/filmmakers words were a part of this: being unable to tell a complete lie like David. "it's not a direct prequel, and it's set in the same universe but tells a parallel story." Everything Ridley said beforehand was true, but some of it was vague, could be taken many ways, and is general like everything David says in the movie, or is not fully realized yet. Bringing back the meta-narrative component to all this. The filmmakers have said they wanted to put us in the crew's shoes for a purpose. Even the "Alien DNA" comment is a perfect example that turned out to be true, but could have meant a few things. But at the time people thought he was just hiding things. The whole misdirection aspect was part of it and tied to the true intent behind leaving the Star map. To mislead us. It's more like a trap as some have guessed, instead of a warning or an invitation. David is the one who uses his vagueness to do a lot more deceiving. And David/Weyland deceiving the crew is partially tied into this. maybe more than partially, because I don't want to admit how big a part of it. And I was a part of it in the very beginning too. The above statement, and "partially" are both a matter of perspective as to just how connected. I chose to write those words to leave a certain impression. However, those words are the truth to some extent. Maybe not the whole truth. And that's a point the movie tries to make. That people interpret things in different ways when they are dealing with unknowns that have ambiguous clues/vague statements to work with. Even though I consider these things partially related to the deception, it could be a much bigger part of it than I'm letting on in another person's perspective. As well as David being made "too real" being a big part of it, and having artificial emotions that allow him to trick others. Telling half-truths by choosing what to believe and allowing others to choose how to interpret his words. A trick he learned from Shaw/Shaw's father. Turns out he was telling the truth the entire time, but some of us didn't believe most of what Ridley said. Like the stuff about how the next part(s) to the original script would have been the direct prequel. Most of it was mostly true. Some of it was half-truth, because the alien DNA was still an important aspect of the movie. The actual xeno DNA contained within the urns. But this DNA has been tainted, tampered with by the Engineers. That's why we needed the re-introduction to this universe. These aren't the typical aliens we'll be dealing with. Ridley is completely through with anything that exactly resembles the old appearance/ways of the Xenomorph.

nostromo001

MemberOvomorphOct-02-2012 9:30 PM
I see. If Ridley Scott called it that as a working title and because of the pointed hat then that is explanation enough. I was just unclear as to why it was called a deacon. Thanks for the info. Its amazing how much talk and thought this series generates. The alien prometheus series is one of my favorite collections of movies and I can barely wait for paradise to come out not to mention Ridley Scott's sequel to Blade Runner. When Blade runner first came out I heard the audience reaction was poor. I personally was amazed by it and saw it several times at the theater. Like all of his science fiction movies, they seem to place you in a whole other world, a dark future which time is vindicating him for this vision of the future. Now the world is catching up with appreciating his work, and as he pointed out in an interview Blade Runner has influenced modern culture as well, i.e. grunge. Life imitating art.
[img]http://0.tqn.com/d/chemistry/1/0/E/1/1/chemistry-glassware.jpg[/img]

nostromo001

MemberOvomorphOct-04-2012 1:38 PM
BTW the Nostromo insident was only 30 years later, not 200 years. My bad. I finely compared timelines later and wrote about the relationship between prometheus, alien and aliens.
[img]http://0.tqn.com/d/chemistry/1/0/E/1/1/chemistry-glassware.jpg[/img]

nostromo001

MemberOvomorphOct-04-2012 2:00 PM
You have to remember that alien came out by itself, not as an assumed longer story with multiple sequels. Then in aliens it was taken over by James Cameron, who reworked it and so the continuity is bound to get mixed up when changing writers or adding writers, as Dan O'Bannon was responsible for the original alien movie, then it was taken over by others and by the time aliens came out we had Cameron taking over the writing as he likes to be involved in every aspect of film making including the writing. Then in alien 3 we had David Fincher taking over and improvising the script as he went along and now we have Ridley Scott and Lindelof writing, so there are bound to be all kinds of confusing facts that dont add up. Its a wonder the whole series makes as much sense as it does!
[img]http://0.tqn.com/d/chemistry/1/0/E/1/1/chemistry-glassware.jpg[/img]
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