Holloway Hungover

I think there are many different people with many different expectations on this. I read many, many times before that Ridley Scott himself was clear to say he had a different story to tell, which was happening in the same universe as Alien, but a story indeed standing alone in relation to that franchise. The Alien frnachise, and this is not my opinion alone as I have back up of many others, was expent and actually loosing itself fast after Aliens (I do not even like that one as well, with ALL that nonsense of Queens, stupid marines and even more stupid companies trying to face an invincible Super Space Ant...UGH!). All the real originality from ALIEN was lost on Aliens, and derailed fast after that. Alien vs Predator was an attempt to save the franchise, and failed. The originality of the SJ imagery is now also twarted, showing them as humanoids using biosuits and not even respecting size differences (the damned corpse on the first movie was a giant, on a gigantic pilot's seat...the Engineer on the last scene is just a overmuscular basquetball player....?!?!?) but then Promethrus is trying to save an otherwise spent, misused original concept, desire expressed by Ridley Scott himself So we (hopefully) will see it departing more and more from Alien, and gaining life by itself, showing that the true story is about the ones that created that bioweapon we saw before, which could be even now be an outdated model among the true Engineer culture, which seems to be not so noble as Ash said in the really good Alien original... Or, and here is another hope, we will see that the Engineers are not from the SJ species, but a servant race/enemy/tool and maybe those ones on that barren moon were the villains/terrorists trying to use bioweapons against the creations of the true Masters, the Giants we saw on Alien, and those biosuits are just an attempt to imitate the SJ race...that wold be nice to see and a true depart from all the now spent and tired monster-franchise that Alien has become... There is hope out there....

@Gimme: 1. How can you possibly expect to get an answer as to what will be included in a director's cut? You can't. But it's nice to know that things are [i]official in your opinion[/i]. That's a weird twist on reality that I haven't encountered before! 2. The sequel will likely be as different to [i]Prometheus[/i] as [i]Prometheus[/i] is to [i]Alien[/i]. 3. [i]Paradise[/i] was the working title for [i]Prometheus[/i]. 4. Yes. They're messing with your head. And quite successfully.

Eh, actually not messing... I never liked Aliens to begin with, especially after reading the original book and watching the original Director's Cut from Alien. Ridley Scott himself let it clear Prometheus is not a pre-quel to Alien (something he stressed out many times, so actually placing it as a sequel is a kind of wishful thinking of the fans...) He is trying to get back in track to something bigger than a monster-movie, and he might succeed, IF he distance himself from the Space Ants, which might happen and then we would see him creating everything anew, maybe tying Alien to it but erasing the rest of the franchise ( ^^ ) I am eager to see the Director's Cut on this. Alien original movie was inferior to the original release and the DC made it way better and nearer the book, although distancing itself from the sequels (which for some was a real nice thing). I actually think that he was displeased with the cuts to the teatrical version, which diminished the whole concept, so lets see what comes. I am not a fan of Alien he Monster Movie, but Alien the original concept, messed and twarted by the sequels, which might be now changing (or not...we need to wait, but there is hope as Ridley Scott said it is not a prequel...)

Lets see Shaw beleives in God, by finding the Engineers and how there DNA matched ours and how this system matched the Star Maps left behind. What Holloway has done is say to Shaw that it disproves there is no God, but because at that time Holloway and the rest believe all these Engineers are dead, this means that Holloway can not prove that they are the supreme creators. When Holloway said it proves the Engineers created us, Shaw said but who created them which affirms her beleaf in there is a Actual God still. I guess Holloways it does not change everything implies while there are no Engineers left to confirm if they did create us and why, the evidence stacks up to support there is no GOD.

The premise itself would discredit a God as we see it. Weyland created sinthetic humans (Ash and David are named that on book and movie) and he is no God. If and when they assert that human life at least was engineered, it would point that God as written in many cultures would not have created us directly... But now, on a philosofical stand point, if I found out that humans were engineered it would not dent my faith...it would just mean that God's creation is way complex and more beautyful. Anyway naming God a creator/engineer of life is not exactly what I think is really accurate anyway. On the movie there might be more on this....lets see the sequel on that.

I also can't wait for the DC. And ZZ, I'd love to kick your ass on ALIENS: Colonial Marines....

Again i have explanations for why Alien was so different to Aliens, mainly in how the Organism acted. Simply because he was alone and against well a crew who would put up less of a fight than even Weylands Mercs did against Fifield. If we dropped a single Xeno into a Walmart on the night shift, this Xeno would hide amongst the storage warehouse and hunt down the staff one by one. Throw in a hand full of Xenos and they would run riot more. If the Nostramo was more spacious with less nooks and crannys to hide in and if the crew replaced by say 12 trained Marines who are well armed, well i would say the Alien Xeno would not fair that well. The main difference was how the movie was set, it was more what you cant see thriller than in your face, and pretty much why the original Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Streets worked better than the part 3 and onwards in your face movies that followed. The main difference Xeno wise in the DC cut was that the Organism could use its victims to then transform them into Eggs or a Egg and a Host, we never ever see what would had become of that scene had the Xeno killed Ripley. We dont know if what ever would come from those Eggs would even look Xeno as the Egg looked a dam sight bigger than the ones the Xeno came from. The Organism that would have came out may have had more Human DNA than Xeno, and lets not forget the Deacon at the end of Prometheus looks more Human than the Original Xeno did, it looked a lot less Bio Mech and less pure but more Hybrid which is what it was.

One thing I like on your post BigDave is about what would happen if trained, real Marines well equiped would have faced that baby there... What we saw on Aliens were morons...I believe that trained/combat experienced soldiers woud have acted differently. Not trained against alien beasts, but really millitary organized. They would observe, plot and organize. Would use the resources they had and then the xeno would have been downed, even if taking some soldiers in the process... This is one thing that distances Prometheus from the whole franchise. IF Weyland had records (and the company would have those!) from everything, or even only from the message we know they had from the downed cargo vessel from the first movie, they knew how dangerous the creature would be, and they would send more trained/experienced/seasoned soldiers there, much more well prepared. Maybe not even letting the Marines go (goverment medling on their affairs would not be good as they were after bioweapons) but sending a highly trained mercenary force, well prepared and stocked. Indeed more and more Prometheus makes the rest of the franchise fade into a parallel/alternate story in relation to this movie and Alien itself.

Voidhawk, I don't think the Prometheus follow-up will go anywhere near LV-426, that's now 'another story entirely'.

As far as Prometheus well Ridley wanted to explore and kept even in interviews after Prometheus came out the same thing over and over. 1) Who was the Big Guy the Pilot in Alien. 2) Why was he carrying that Cargo of Bio Weapons. 3) Where was he going and where did he come from. Ridley has kind of only answered 1) in the times he keeps saying the idea for Prometheus was those 3 above he never or rarely asks.... a) Why did the Derelict land on LV 426. b) What happened to the Pilot. c) When did this happen. As it was obvious really that that ship had a Cargo of Eggs and had crash landed and the reason was because well he must have been infected by one of the Face Huggers. And it was obvious this happened a long long time ago. But Ridleys original idea was to explore who this Space Jockey was, how did he get there and why he was carrying the Eggs and what was the whole purpose. The Original Draft appeared to answer that and maybe would had centered around the Space Jockey on LV 426... But Lindelof came aboard and he and Ridley talked and they then came up with a new plot, one where he would like to steer away from the Xeno as it was in Alien, one where he would steer away from the events on LV 426 the Derelict and Xeno Eggs. And one where he would see just who that Pilot was, and he went for a Race of giant Humanoids in Space Suits who created mankind. i.e Ancient Astronaut theory. Ages prior to Prometheus Ridley said that the Derelict had Eggs, was a Bomber or Cargo Ship for Bio Weapons and that the Pilot was a Space Suit. The more people look at the original prop prior to painting etc the more you can see the similarities to the Space Jockey in Prometheus. Size is off yes but thats Ridley Scot who makes mistakes, the idea in Alien was the Pilot was 15ft tall suited, he looked larger because well Ridley used child actors to create the illusion. The size idea for Prometheus was 10ft you only need to look at the concept artwork and story board of the Last Engineer and you will see he is a lot lot bigger than Shaw. [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/concept_132.jpg]Concept Engineer 1[/url] [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/engineers_behindthescenes26.jpg]Concept Engineer 2[/url] [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/concept053.jpg]Shaw vs Engineer 1[/url] [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/gallery/view/img/469]Shaw vs Engineer 2[/url] As you will see from these the Engineer was depicted as what looks like 10-12ft tall in these images. Notice the Space Jockeys dead in the other Cyro Pods are like the one in Alien more. The Production staff had said that the Engineers was 9-10ft Race... Its simply Ridleys mistake of going practical and maybe on budget to not use some trickery that made LOTR Hobit actors that stood about 5.5ft appear to only be 3.5 to 4ft tall next to 6ft Human Actors etc. So the idea was for 10ft in Space Jockey Suits sadly the Engineer in the scenes especially with Shaw just never created that illusion and you could tell they used a 7ft1" to 7ft2" actor with 3" booster boots and hoped that his now near 7.5ft frame next to Shaws near 5ft one would create a illusion of greater scale. Nope Ridley the Child Actors turned the 14-15ft Space Jockey into a 18ft+ one and in Prometheus a 9ft Engineer into a 7.5ft one.

Indeed the idea of Prometheus is really that the Engineers are not God, maybe some God created them who knows. Its kinda like Rise of the Planet of Apes, or if Mankind started to create hybrid creatures and tried to give them Human like Brains would that make mankind Gods? Nope... the idea in Prometheus is that these Engineers used the substance at the start of the movie to break down one of their own Engineers genetics and DNA so that it would then fuse with basic bacteria etc and mutated to evolve into more complex life. As far as the Marines in Aliens, they are a bunch of Morons but i also know people from our Armed Forced in the UK and lets say they are not exactly the full ticket. Anyway yes if you was to go out on that kind of mission you would take your best trained Marines and those in Alien well they was not up to the task really. But then again did you see the crew in Prometheus? I mean Weyland Corp and Industries simply ant got a clue about recruiting the right personnel for the job. Seems only Ripley and Shaw are fit enough to be true survivors when dealing with the Dangers posed in the Franchises.

True true... But meh...the idea of the Giant Space Jockey was way more charming and enhanced the alienness...pitty it was left behind by mistake or budget constraints. Yeah millitary are morons but then you also pointed out, on such a mission they would send the best. Both Aliens and Prometheus shows how inept Weyland Company was in recruiting their crew...but not counting the Nostromo crew here, as it was the only ship going that way and they wanted to do things under the cover. The idea was actually to bypass government inspections with a medical emergency, because Ash''s instructions were to get one of the crew infected, hypersleep the poor guy and bring it straight to Weyland Bio-Weapkn's division to extract the alien bio weapon for studies...Ripley pointed it out that they would/could never pass the border/arrival inspection infected with an alien organism. Goverment procedures would prevent any possible alien organism threat to enter Earth. So Weyland only option was to smuggle the organism on one of the crew. This also points out that the last pilot sent not only a warning signal, but also at least a brief recall of what was happening, and Ash (on the book) says the message was not meant to their species only, but to anyone able to decypher the message, to any spacefaring race passing by. Ripley noticed it while trying to translate it with Mother's resources, noticing that the message was intricate but following a pattern similar to a warning, not a SOS, as SOS messages are simple, straight messages while warnings are more complex - Ripley's explanation as to why she was bothered by the message and considered it not a SOS but some kind of warning)

Ah yes the classic case of searching for aliens drunk can often lead to frustrating results...especially communication will always be impaired. It's probably better that he didn't talk to aliens being so drunk, high and having a thesis that was way off!

@ Ruhaniya, I know...They've completely ruined it.

I'm coming to the opinion that PROMETHEUS was a lot more SYMBOLIC than most people are attributing to it: this could be Ridley Scott's socio-political MAGNUM OPUS. Let's remember that the Lawrence of Arabia story (while romanticised by the movies) is actually about a British counter-intelligence counter-insurgence asset starting revolutions in the Arab territories, sound contemporary (Iraq, Iran, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia) to anyone else? Prometheus (because of or illustrated by its script deficiencies/knee-cappings) has to be taken as not just some 'explanatory Alien-prequel' -- I'd like to hear what Ridley Scott has to say about WHAT HIS FILM IS, as an abstract concept related to TPTB or The Powers That Be. Remember, his BROTHER [i]"killed himself"[/i] like a raving lunatic, man possessed, puppeteered Manchurian Candidate, off a well-fenced bridge the same month Pro2 was announced. And let's not forget RANDY QUAID, escaped to Canada because The Hollywod Mafia were out to assassinate his ass. Seriously.