While reading the following, assume that the Deacon IS a Xenomorph. Prometheus implies the Alien was created by Holloway consuming the black goo, Impregnating Shaw, Shaw giving birth to the bodyhugger which then impregnated the Engineer, creating the deacon which burst from it's chest. So if the Deacon is an Xenomorph, how the hell did it get to LV-426?? There are no humans on LV-426 to get pregnant and spawn bodyhuggers (assuming the only way to create one is through the process stated above) It just doesn't make sense if you ask me. Shaw and David left the Deacon on LV-223. How could it have traveled to LV-426 for the Nostromo crew to discover eggs of it's species? OR if it didn't 'travel', what are the chances such a similar species was created on LV-426? (assuming what is created by black goo is very specific to what it infects) *edit* i do also understand that the Derelict on LV-426 was carrying the eggs as cargo and most likely crashed there when it burst from the pilots chest. so could it have been coming from LV-223 or something along those lines?
"if you look at early trailers and the original shots that green crystal is in fact not a green crystal at all. It's the same kind of bowl that the sacrificial engineer drank from." Yes thats true and i gave my theory here [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/10107]Engineers Origins and Black Goo[/url] I also covered the same in some of my threads and in reply to the sticky thread [b]The Secrets of the Black Goo[/b] Also the Bowl is changed to the crystal and yes maybe it represents something inside that contains Xeno DNA? As far as working out the potential flaws of how and when the Deacon gets to LV 426 in which if covered would mean a movie where either... 1) Shaw and David are on board with the Deacon... this wont make a long movie would it? 2) Earth sends another mission to find out what happened to Prometheus and the crew come across the Deacon and the result ends in one of the survivors escaping on a Juggernaut that has the Deacon or a Queen Face Hugger or something on it. This would be a movie similar to Prometheus meets Alien/Aliens. 3) Either some Engineers after Shaw find them or some others left on LV 223 or some just visiting the system come across the Deacon and via a series of events we end up leading to Eggs on the ship and it crashes on LV 426. But this would be a movie about or similar to Xenos and Ridley wants to move away from that and so these above scenarios are unlikely. And as evidence that Ridley wanted to go away from the Xeno in future movies, he went as far to fully explain what happened prior to Alien and LV 426. He said... That the Derelict and its Pilot was brother to the Engineer in Prometheus.. that means same kind of ship and same kind of Pilot. That the Derelict was carrying a Cargo of Eggs, these was Bio Weapons and the Derelict was some kind of Bomber (well a Cargo Ship carrying Bio Weapons). The ship was leaving LV 223 to go to a unspecified destination, however one of the Cargo had got compromised and got to the Pilot who then knowing he was infected, decided to take the Derelict to the nearest baron place it did not get far and never to its original destination and thus he had to make a emergency landing on LV 426 and set off a Warning Beacon. These are not Ridleys exact words just what he meant. He also said that the events of the crashing on LV 426 occurred a few hundred years prior to the events that wiped out the Engineers (the LV 223 outbreak) but he may had said the events happened within a few hundred years of that event and thus 1700 to 2300 years prior to Prometheus. The above simply means that the Derelict on LV 426 had been there for thousands of years and thus the Eggs predate the Deacon in Prometheus and the Deacon in Prometheus does not get to LV 426. Well not on the Derelict in Alien.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I'm going to have a crack at trying to explain it, from my understanding. The events of Prometheus took place on LV 223, 28 years before the events of Alien. We still don't know if the deacon is the first "xenomorph" or if it is a different species altogether. The eggs, in the derelict, in Alien were discovered on LV 426 by the crew of the nostromo in the year 2122. Now, IF it turns out that the deacon is the first of the "xenomorph" species, then that deacon would have either layed eggs in a juggernaut on LV 223, then the SJ gets in it and ends up crashing on LV 426. Or the eggs that are in the derelict on LV 426, were created by something else and that SJ from Alien had been there for a long time. Maybe the deacon had nothing to do with the eggs, and never leaves LV 223. I personally believe that the deacon isn't the first "xenomorph", it is just another species and the SJ from Alien crashed on LV 426 a long time before the events of Prometheus and Alien (i think longer than 2000 years before Prometheus)
The poster was good though!
welcome dude and there are many possibilities for this as: 1) The Juggernaut from Alien has been stuck for a long time (perhaps for thousands of years) on LV-426, therefore Deacon is not the Xenomorph that laid the eggs. So Accordingly, we can say that the Deacon is a different species (as in Alien 3) or even an updated version of the old original biological weapon. 2) I don't think that the whole plot of the sequel is focused on the space travel of Shaw and David. I don't really surprised that we saw a second expedition to LV-223 (Weyland or Yutani) then maybe there is still the possibility of a direct prequel to explain the events of LV-426. 3) Ok, this is very unlikely but who knows ... If the creature has been cast as the third passenger in the juggernaut of Shaw and David. 4) If we take into account that Prometheus is a Spin-Off, then the sequel may have nothing to do with Alien, unless there is the possibility of a trilogy (with another director probably)
1) the deacon didnt get from lv 223 to lv 426 (imo). 2) I hope the sequel to prometheus deals almost exclusively with engineers and shaw/david etc. However, I do think it would be nice if the creators of the sequel provided a few on-screen hints as to the origins of the xeno (ie: dropped in a few visual and narrative clues that help put this whole... which came first, the xeno or the deacon debate to rest).
I did some research on the Black Goo and Green Vials, and it has cleared somethings up. i'm sure you know the green vials supposedly contains the Xeno DNA to create Xenomorphs, and that is what David put in Holloways drink thus ultimately leading to the Deacon's creation. This makes more sense, showing that the deacon/xenos were not made on accident from the black goo alone simply making the organism affected grow. (like what it did to the worms, creating the hammerpedes) So the Engineers already had intentions to create this Xenomorph species and the Deacon is not the only one, like i thought. I have come to a theory that possibly the Black Goo and Green Vials (or maybe even further, the EGGS) were created on LV-223 (for resources/safe experimental location), and that one of the Juggernauts carrying it back to another planet (possibly their home) crashed on LV-426 after the an Xeno burst from it's chest mid-trip as a result of one of the huggers getting loose. I feel like i'm veering too far off from the main-aspect of Prometheus which is the creation of humans, not xenos, but idk i'm just throwing it out there.
@Andrew055. "throwing it out there" is what we're all doing mate lol. My theory, regarding the SJ with cargo of eggs, is that he was on his way BACK to LV 223 after collecting the eggs from another planet. I'm going off the scene in Alien where Dallas and Brett are being turned into eggs. I think that is what they are doing with the black stuff, releasing it onto a planet populated by humanoids or other life, the life on those other planets are eventually turned into eggs by the other "xenomorphs". Then the engineers go collect the eggs. He got facehugged on his way back.
The poster was good though!
When we see the mural in the temple we can visualize something of the classic life cycle and the Deacon in the center, then definitely not an accident. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/15duu5i.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/315zuyw.jpg[/img] [quote]I feel like i'm veering too far off from the main-aspect of Prometheus which is the creation of humans, not xenos, but idk i'm just throwing it out there.[/quote] True but is more interested the origins of the Engineers, and IMHO the ancient astronauts plot were not entirely necessary ... so YES! ... the origin of the Xenomorphs is more interesting. :D BTW I wonder if this green crystal has something to do with the Xeno DNA. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/nfs8rn.jpg[/img]
I think the green crystal you speak of does have some significance. If you look at early trailers and the original shots that green crystal is in fact not a green crystal at all. It's the same kind of bowl that the sacrificial engineer drank from. It was either shot two different ways or changed in post. Either way why would they change it for no reason? Also, it seems kinda obvious to me that the ampules "sweating" as David states and the black goo oozing out is the beginning of the xeno eggs as we know them or some kind of "eggs" for that matter that give birth to some kind of creatures.
From what I've been reading and just kidda putting it together since thats all we can do in some regards, I've been lead in this direction. Deacon is not on the other planet and has nothing to do with the ship or Xenos from alien/aliens. The ship from alien is an entirely diffrent part of the story predating the Prometheus flim. (this has been sourced from director/script interviews and reviews) It's unclear if the Engineers had anything to do with the creation of the xenos, they may have been a species all on there own and have found there way into the Engineers culture, how and why are still unclear. ( this has been sourced from original scripts and unused scenes from previous films) The big debate right now is more were the Engineers tampering with Xeno DNA for military, religious or scientific reasons? (this has been sourced from community debates) Hope this helps, I looked up some old pictures from the first 2 movies and most are on sites that have alot of intresting facts from the previous films including cut scenes and original scripts, check em out there inetresting reads.
[img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/JP-Amber.jpg[/img] Ok, with the green Crystal I have read an interesting theory on another site (but I forget the link :P) about amber fossils. Ok, it's just a theory and I know that this is not Jurassic Park but has some logic the possibility that these green rock contain some DNA of some kind of extinct life form and maybe the Engineers used it to create their biological weapon for some reason.
by the way, and just for fun I've put together some ideas from the forums to recreate a fictional scenario of the sequel... Prometheus 2: The Paradise [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/136746355_Image9_122_26lo.jpg[/img] In the prologue we see part of the scene of Engineers in the genesis of the Earth and other scenes showing the Engineers watching humans in ancient times. [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/16218.jpg[/img] There is a sinister plan in motion. [img]http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s402/Albertocrazy86/imagesCAHA3S4M.jpg[/img] and then the story is seen through 2 points of view: 1) YUTANI EXPEDITION [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/Ogame_Space_Ship_Wallpaper.jpg[/img] The Yutani company send a ship called "Ethon Five" to investigate what Weyland found on LV-223. The crew is composed by: Miss Takako Yutani (Yutani company CEO). Marines: Shepard, Hunter, Lawrence, Lekker, Morgan, Bernard, Jacob, Tyler, Cameron ,Logan and Jenna. Scientists: Dr Daisuke (Astronomer), Dr Arthur (paleontologist), Dr Sydney (Archeologist), and Dr Savir (Geneticist) Pilots: Jim, Kail and Connor. The crew explores the pyramid. Inside on the temple the crew is attacked by huge snakes (22 feet long) living in the swamps of Black waters in the the big head room. There, one of the creatures crushed the head of one of the Marines, Hunter, with their powerful jaws. Then Lawrence opens fire with his pulse rifle against the creature, killing her; but the corrosive blood reaches his face and body and burned to death. Another snake wrapped around the body of Cameron crushing by constriction. After killing him is burned with a flamethrower by Commander Shepard. [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/Snake_Alien_by_ReBeLKiMy.jpg[/img] At the same time one of the Marines, Lekker, fled terrified by the claustrophobic corridors of the structure and is kidnapped by the Deacon between the shadows. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/deacon_concept6.jpg[/img] More later the second expedition explorer the Juggernaut and find the deacon adult, now become in a huge monster, even more larger than the Engineers. The creature moves with great speed and agility on the walls and ceilings and attacks by ambush, killing 3 members (Abie, Bernard, and Daisuke). when he finally reveals himself kill Arthur and Morgan with its second mouth. Finally, the monster is destroyed, but the squadron of the mission has suffered heavy losses. [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/9930a422dc642acc4017f0e3b27ce945-d55n0z1.jpg[/img] Then the survivors of the crew found the cargo hold full of urns, and decide to take 2 for analysis. Within the Ethon, in the laboratory, the Dr Savir (scientific officer) studies the strange black substance injected into laboratory animals and he discover that not only serves to create a biological weapon, also has other qualities such as reviving corpses. The crew also collected what looks like a kind of solidified green resin, this resin in the form of green crystals preserved in very good condition DNA samples from some kind of creature. The samples dating back millions of years old. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/film-alien-egg-morph.jpg[/img] On the other hand the man who was kidnapped by the Deacon, Lekker, is enveloped in a cocoon. After a while it becomes an egg. Jacob finds the egg and a small creature (a cross between cephalopod and spider) born and jumps to stick on his face. [img]http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s402/Albertocrazy86/concept_87.jpg[/img] Now the leader of the ship, Miss Takako Yutani, plans to steal the urns of the cargo hold of the Juggernaut to bring back to Earth. Through it all she informs the rest of the fleet, which is to come, about the mansaje of Dr. Shaw, but before leaving the orbit of the moon a huge Engineer mothership (like a flying saucer) flying over the pyramids of LV-223... [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/dfvghjkl.png[/img] 2) SHAW AND DAVID TRIP [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/capital_ship.jpg[/img] David and Dr Shaw find the home planet of the Engineers like a place ravaged by the war and all cities are in ruins. [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/prometheus_chamber_by_radojavor-d4bkui2.jpg[/img] Among the ruins Shaw and David sighted hundreds of old ships abandoned in the post-apocalyptic landscape. [img]http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s402/Albertocrazy86/tumblr_m2220o4MVd1rnm594o1_400.jpg[/img] Then the true God is revealed as a huge biomechanical mothership and kidnaps Dr. Shaw and David. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/359_1066199614852_4369_n-copia.jpg[/img] Inside the gigantic ship everything seems biomechanical and organic. The walls take horrible humanoid forms when David and Shaw crossed by the claustrophobic and dark hallway. Some of the humanoid figures are mated sexually to give rise to new and more exotic life forms. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/GIGER_LANDSCAPES.jpg[/img] Finally both come to the bridge. There are a huge biomechanical monolith. Definitely is not a machine, is some kind of complex and superior life form. Shaw tries to communicate with the entity to get his precious answers, then David helping her, and begins to transmit the messages in the language of the Engineers to communicate with the God. There, the creature displays enormous tentacles and inserted into the skin of Shaw. Shaw's body begins to mutate into a big biomechanical woman. [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/hr_giger_csg081-1--7c0d76.jpg[/img] at the same time the mechanism produces a strange siren sound (as in the trailer for Alien and Prometheus) The Dr. Shaw begins to see images of the ancient past in his head... [img]http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s402/Albertocrazy86/prometheus_and_god_by_dejano23-d56r8kq.jpg[/img] And the truth is that the Engineers are just tools, very similar to the relationship between humans and androids. The Engineers rebelled against his master and creator. They did not want to be simple terraforming tools and created a terrible biological weapon to fight against this Gods. The Engineers found the DNA samples of an extinct race of monsters in Crystals of green resin. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/nfs8rn.jpg[/img] This species lived in LV-223 five million years ago. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/ahahah.jpg[/img] They have a skeletal body with hardened tentacles on the back and a sort of tube attached to the sternum. Then the armed military of the engineers race design their biomechanical space suits based on the appearance of the ancient monsters. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/concept001.jpg[/img] After performing many experiments with the DNA of this extinct Aliens,the engineers finally created the perfect soldier. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/alien1.jpg[/img] But they had some troubles to transporting the eggs, 2200 years ago an engineer trying to transport a shipment of eggs in his old Juggernaut but an incident occurred, and he crashed on LV-426. The pilot sent a signal to his brother explaining what happened before he died and the military scientists of LV-223 began to perfect his creation. In the process many Engineers died but one survived to complete the mission. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/space-jockey-alien-580x426.jpg[/img] And the evolution took the next step and the gun was redesigned and updated to facilitate the transport. [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/prometheusK_screencap31.jpg[/img] The Engineers plans were to carry the weapon to Earth to use humans as incubators of an army of xenomorphs. The star maps was a trap because Sometimes to create, one must first destroy. [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/tumblr_m3yizyOa7D1rnm594o1_500.jpg[/img] The visions stop but the biomechanical God entity has read Shaw's memories and she knows that the humanity is interested in the monstrosities that the Engineers have created (as well as other races in the past) and now the Alien ship is headed to LV-223 to stop this threat. At that moment, David discovers another kind of Urn. Inside he can see a black substance bubbling similar to that contained in other Urns. [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/concept_79.jpg[/img] This new liquid can generate a biochemical reaction to convert RNA into DNA and cause a real biological Big Bang (similar to the Cambrian Explosion). This masterpiece of the Genetics engineering is the true fire of the gods. A technology that undoubtedly would make to the humans equal to the Gods. But before David takes the following action, the terrifying figure of the now transformed Shaw appears behind him to destroy it. Now a dark and frightening battle will occur in LV-223...
They better bloody answer some of this stuff because it really does need defining in the end or it'll end up one of the worst moves in cinema history jah jah binks times 10!
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
@djamelameziane...No doubt some questions will be answered but I pray they still keep with the ambiguity theme in some regards. The SJ in Alien and the questions surrounding it was and always will be my favorite part in the entire franchise. The mystery behind it added so much to Alien. I'm so glad Ridley pushed and pushed Fox into paying for the set as Alien wouldn't have been the same without it. I know there are tons of fans that want the LV-426 mystery of how the SJ got there, how the xenos were created and where he was going explained and handed to them on a silver platter but, imo, they have already explained enough. It seems and I hope that Ridley has moved on from that.
Engineering: I'm with you on that, my contention is that without mystery you have no sense of otherness, no ideas to turn over, no stimulus for the imagination. No Ridleyness. Also any answers we get come from human writers, and although we've seen time and again great works of imagination right here on this site, one can't help but know their origin no matter how well disbelief us suspended. Mapusoul; : thank you for a great read! Thoroughly enjoyed it, and was quite irritated as well as much of it mirrors my own ideas I had been working on!
Hi guys im new on this forum, shambhala idk if ur a writer but dammit u should be cause that was so freaking awesome and entertaining u answered a lot of questions for me fan fiction or not that was Kick ass great post
@myali83 welcome and thanks. On the other hand I am not a writer, in fact my skills are bad :D but that story was somewhat improvised, inspired by various theories of the forums and as you can see there are a lot of pictures there because like I said I'm not very good telling stories, then, I use visual support. :)
This is written without having watched Covenant.
I am anxious to see how they explain the difference between the minimum 2 factions of beings we call the 'Engineers'. It is quite obvious from the appearance of those in the beginning of Prometheus and those Shaw and Halloway call the Engineers there are 2 separate factions/groups of 'Engineers', likely one spiritual and one militaristic. It seems to me there is a conflict between the 2 factions. I personally believe the militaristic faction biologically engineered the black goo as a parasitic weaponizing genetic agent to transmute the target hosts into viable weapons so as to destroy enemies with minimum risk to themselves. This makes sense to me when one looks at the difference in the 2 factions, but specifically, when one observes the details of the militaristic faction they should notice that their bodies have the same basic genetic structure and physical appearance as the xenomorphs from later in the plot/movies. I think this is a result of them assimilating the genetic goo beneficially to mutate their own bodies, in turn attaining the look we see versus the 'spiritual pacifists' we see seeding the waterfall. Clearly, the agent drank by the pacifist at the waterfall was different from that in the vials that compromised the crew in Prometheus. I think the green crystals have everything to do with the differences we see in the mutations of subjects, such as mutations versus complete disintegration like at the waterfall. I also feel the crystals are a key and core component in not only the black goo/mutation capabilities, but in their technology such as the navigation console in the Juggernaut in Prometheus as well. In fact, I am willing to bet the green crystals, as well as the goo, are likely at the core of the conflict of the 2 factions of Engineers, even if only minimal. LV-223 seems to be a military installation as indicated in Prometheus. I believe this is one installation, of many, that the military faction used to cultivate this goo. If you notice on Prometheus, the shrine room Shaw found the head in, there is a large sculpture above the green crystal, this looks oddly similar to a queen alien. I'm wondering if that shrine room has a slightly different concoction than the rest of the storage locations. That shrine room seemed to be the only one held at lower temperatures too, which makes me wonder why.
I don't believe the ship in Alien is directly linked to events on LV-223, I don't see enough evidence to indicate that the chronology supports this, but that can change with events in Covenant. I believe that the military, or all of, the species found the Xenomorphs out in space somewhere and were able to sample the genetics leading to the development of the military's ultimate weapon, and their increased physical attributes and similar looks. I think the deacon, like most other xenomorphs, is a result of specific genetic assimilation, meaning we will likely see new and different xenomorphs all the time. It seems the differentiating variable is the host's genetics. As long as new genes are encountered we will keep seeing new xenomorphs. How the lineage of assimilated genes of a single queen xenomorphs plays into subsequent generations of xenomorphs, I am not sure, but it makes sense that it will result in a completely new xenomorph, despite being slightly or very similar in looks to those we have seen so far. We can consider the end of Alien v Predator 2 where we get to see this predator alien mutation as an example. Another is the dog form of xenomorph in Aliens 3. Alien Resurrenction shows us another mutated form of xenomorph as a live born fetus 1 generation after the queen clone was extracted.
As are others, I still don't see how the deacon escaped LV-223 unless it stowed away on another ship that later left or another Earth/alien based craft that landed and departed again.
Until then it makes sense to me that we have stumbled arbitrarily into the middle of a civil war between the 2 sides of beings we seek and stuck in the middle with us, used as weapons, are the xenomorphs and their limitless genetic makeup. Now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps the opening scene of Prometheus is the pacifist seeding that location to cultivate their own weapon using the form of goo they have, as noted earlier, likely developed from the green crystal. Just a thought though.
I plan on editing and collaborating with other fans after I have seen Covenant.
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