Alien Movie Universe

Blade Runner "Plot Holes" and Prometheus

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Engineering

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 1:01 AM
It seems most of the Prometheus detractors have dissapeared from the forum. However when Prometheus was released they were in full force and pointing, out to no end, what they called "plot holes." Even though most are gone there are still some of you who talk about "plot holes" and poor writing. I'm not sure if any of you like Blade Runner but a large portion consider it the best sci-fi film of all time and if not the best a close second. I'll preface this by stating that none of the things brought up as "plot holes" or poor writing bothered me. If something did, it was something that I never noticed until someone brought it up. I also find a lot of these "problems" with Prometheus quite ridiculous so, in turn, I think most of the "problems" I found with Blade Runner quite ridiculous. However, they are there. Just like in Prometheus. Basically, if you look hard enough you will find what you want. If you want "plot holes" you can find "plot holes." If you want to find something great you can find something great. And if you believe that Prometheus sucks because it has "plot holes" or poor writing then you need to take a second look at Blade Runner because there are many things that parallel to your problems with Prometheus and some that dont. In no particular order... 1)Deckard is presented as this badass, android hunting detective. The best of the best. Yet he blunders along getting his ass kicked at every turn, feeling sorry for his prey and falling in love with them. The man would have died at the hands of his prey had his prey not spared his life. The best of the best acting like the worst of the worst. Hmmm. This sounds familiar. Just like in Prometheus. People on the net were all in an uproar about how these scientists were behaving and the things they were doing. Afterall, Weyland would have got the best of the best according to detractors. Yet they were acting like the worst of the worst. 2)How does the Voight Kampff machine work? It was never explained. This unanswered question could be compared to the "how does the black goo work?" question. Both important, both unanswered. 3)If the eyes of the replicants are of human "genetic design" as Hannibal Chew states, then why do they glow when light hits them? 4)Why do the replicants breath? You can see breath when they are in Chew's Eye World. 5)Eldon Tyrell says they can controll reps better if they give them memories. Bryant says the makers were worried about reps developing emotions. You know love, hate, fear, anger, envy? Memories create emotion. If you think about ba family member who has died you get sad. If you think about a great gift you got on your 6th birthday you get happy. Why would Tyrell give them memories when memories create emotion? 6)If the city is overflowing with people, looking much like Times Square on new years eve, so packed you can't even walk, then why is there no housing shortage where JF Sebastian lives? 7)Why does Gaff help Deckard at Leon Kowalski's apartment yet is nowhere to be seen for the rest of the investigation? To make the story better maybe? 8)Why does a police force of an overpopulated megalopolis have so few Blade Runners that one gets injured and they have to forcefully pull one out of retirment to hunt down 4 reps? 9)Why would Holden read Leon's address aloud as a question during the Voight Kampff test? You can compare this with problems people had with Prometheus like "Why did Millburn, who controlled the mapping device, get lost if not to move the story along? and so forth. So, there's a few. I didn't even finish watching the film to come up with these. I didn't even get to Rachel's Voight Kampff test. I got a few while watching and the rest I pulled from my memory of the film. As I said, I think a lot of these are silly. I feel the same way about most of the "problems" with Prometheus. There's no need to post a list of answers to these questions. I could answer them all myself. Some with actual, factual answers. Some with specualtion. EXACTLY like the "problems" or "plot holes" in Prometheus. So, if Prometheus sucks, then Blade Runner sucks lol!
[IMG]http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q507/Engineering211/sig2.jpg[/IMG]
34 Replies

Custodian

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 1:15 AM
Engineering, it's about time I got that VHS of Blade Runner (Director's Cut) off the stack and gave it yet another look-see. Back later...
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

Engineering

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 1:54 AM
Watch it, man. All those huge "plot holes" are there and boy do they make Blade Runner one of the worst films in history. Right next to Prometheus as the worst film of all time. Sarcasm at it's finest.
[IMG]http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q507/Engineering211/sig2.jpg[/IMG]

zzplural

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 3:20 AM
Dead right, mate. What about "It's too bad, she won't live... but then again who does?" and "All those moments lost in time like tears in the rain"? I think they're great lines myself, but if Lindelof had written them, you'd find people moaning that it's cheesy dialogue and sort of... LOST. Not to mention lazy scriptwriting.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Kane77

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 4:01 AM
If Prometheus HAD been as good as BR nobody would have written about its plot holes and bad script. simple as that. You cant compare BR to Prometheus script qualitywise or character development. It is just GOOD.

Crabfart

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 6:46 AM
People just dissect movies that are supposed to be set in our universe and our future in a realistic serious manner more because we have experience of it! I.e. anyone that's not retarded knows you wouldn't of taken your helmet off in that engineer structure! :P Thats why not many people dissect things like starwars due to it not being set within our history / future / galaxy ... Although no movie really can have no links to us or we wouldn't understand it :P !

zzplural

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 4:20 AM
@Kane77 It doesn't matter how good or bad Prometheus is. There have never been more commentards on the internet than at this moment in time, and people will always complain. Plenty of people moaned about Blade Runner when it was released. If Blade Runner had been released in 2012, you would find plenty of armchair critics rubbishing it today. As for myself, I rate Blade Runner as one of the best films ever made. But as for script and character development... well, wasn't it Harrison Ford who said that one of the reasons he hates it is because his character doesn't actually do very much? I'd say that the central character in Prometheus (David) is perfectly well developed. How well developed was the character of Bryant in Blade Runner? Feck all, that's how much.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Custodian

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 4:21 AM
Heh, heh heh, Engineering, you were right, shittest film in history, just 'endured' it once more, fangs 4 da memories. :)
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

schwarzbaer666

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 6:19 AM
Yeah, you are absolutely right, so right! I believe you can dissect ANY movie in this manner and you will get TONS of plotholes! Who the hell cares? I want to be entertained and Prometheus SURELY delivered! By the way, the movie has started now in Germany and we have EXACTLY the same merciless war in every kind of forum between lovers and haters, the same 1000s of high professional movie critics and screen writers, the same people who think EVERY human being is ALWAYS acting in a logical and reasonable way...Strange...

Xenothinker

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 6:13 AM
First off, the haters of PROM are more than likely still floating around (like me), but we don't get involved in conversations about the quality of the movie. Trollish I guess. As per the chincy lines of BR vs PROM - it doesn't matter how lame or weak a line really is, but how it is delivered can make all the difference. In PROM, the acting was terribly weak (barring David and Shaw) which in turn makes the lines of dialogue seem shallow and weak. PROM has a very quick moving pace that really hurts the movie because there is zero time spent to develop characters. The only character to receive any sort of proper development was David - and he is only a supporting character. But the pace of the film didn't just hurt character development, it also hurt plot development. We weren't given the time to learn more about what was happening because everything was going break neck. I'm not saying it needed to be a slow grow movie that spelled everything out, but it did need some time to allow the story to breathe a life of its own. This is before you get into the major editing and sound issues. RS wanted to scare the audience, but he left no time to have tension building or terrifying scenes (not neccessarily gore or shock moments typical of a horror film). One of the things that made Alien a great horror film was the sense of clausterphobia and not even really seeing the creature until the climax. But this film just kept going and didn't give the promised scares. IMO the biggest reason PROM flopped was because it did not live up to its expetations.

zzplural

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 7:42 AM
@Crabfart: [i]"Anyone that's not retarded knows you wouldn't of taken your helmet off in that engineer structure!"[/i] I'd perhaps take my helmet off given the available evidence. Especially if I had Holloway's flawed personality. But then again, I do know something about biology, and how I would be a complete numpty to even [i]dream[/i] that an invisible alien pathogen would have any use of my body or means of doing it harm. Now, can we get off the Prometheus mistakes that aren't mistakes in this topic, and get back to the business of Blade Runner plot holes.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Major Noob

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 7:44 AM
I don't think David is a supporting character, AT ALL. This is his story as much as, if not more than, Shaws. The best yet, both hero and monster.

Custodian

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 7:55 AM
back on the BR bandwagon, it's quite clear that Prometheus was a philosophical DRY RUN at a Blade Runner 2 for Scott, there are so many parallels.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

Crabfart

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 8:05 AM
Lol I netted one - I wasn't talking about holloway - but even him taking his helmet off was like a 1 in a million chance - the rest of them just plain wouldn't happen. But I guess zzplural thinks exactly like them that's why he agrees lol! What if the black goo was air bourne, what if there were booby traps, something around the corner acid etc. etc. the list goes on forever LOL ! Also as it turned out the engineers had almost identical DNA so how do you think the alien pathogens would match up eh? My god the stupidity!

shambs

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 8:50 AM
Well, maybe Prometheus is like a voyage of discovery Columbus style, and not for anything Ridley Scott directed 1492: Conquest of Paradise, which gives us a something that is discovered, and that only future explorations may reveal his true condition. Maybe the sequel can clarify more the direction of Prometheus (most likely a kind of spin-off) and I agree on the fact that Prometheus has become a hotly debated by film fans. Maybe that is their purpose (regardless of the sequel)

Kane77

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 9:09 AM
people are getting tired of argueing about the plot holes and what not.. its not the peoples fault its the director´s. sad but true. ..of course there are people around who try to ´fix´ the plot holes afterwards by argueing but .. no use. Scott must do a better FC.

Crabfart

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 9:09 AM
Theres not much that would save prometheus from being an average movie apart from a god like being mind controlling them into doing stupid crap or something like that! But heres to hoping :P ...and yer all the people I have chatted too about bits that didnt make logical sense seem to come up with things that wern't in the film and say yer thats how it happend - so funny!

shambs

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 9:17 AM
I prefer objective criticism towards the film, ie in relation to their holes or a possible lazy script. But I think that the Hard core fans must see the sequel as a possible spin-off and not a rehash of obvious ideas that connected with Alien, who knows, after all we do not know if Ridley change his mind in the future :P.

PUNX

Art DirectorMemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 10:51 AM
Blade Runner was cosidered a cult classic before any of the later relises to put many of the minor errors to mend (most people, myself included, felt that they didn't matter, detract or spoil any of the beautiful visuals). Going hand in hand with book (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep), like another perpecvtive of the world set and as disconnected and estranged as the orignal work. I know that Scott loves the story Frankenstein ('s creation) and is echoed in Alien, Prometheus, Bladerunner (Which infact has a large neon sign appearing a few times with the Chinese glyph meaningh "Origin"). This As far as I see it the best movie of all time and the only other filmn on a par was Metropolis... I see the good and bad in Prometheus... but am always pulled in by it. I sit and watch it night after night and have yet to get bored. I think Prometheus willl be remebered long after its critism, look at the stick Alien got when it was released! There are elements in both films that make no sense, but that doesn't stop it being a ride I would take over and over and over again. That said I always held close the belief that Blade Runner needs no and should have no sequel... I'll admit curiosity, but for once I would prefer to stay ignorrant. (I have heard Batty's speech at the end of BR said to sound like "modern" Shakspeare! I do not agree I think it is deeper and straight to the point like a blunt amputation realised)
http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/sariefaerie/random083-1.jpg

zzplural

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 10:20 AM
@Crabfart: You didn't net anything, Einstein. If you weren't talking about Holloway - and FFS everyone else moaning about it was - it was already known that the air was clear later in the movie, and nothing to do with any infection. David said so quite directly, and Weyland had obviously been briefed on this fact. Once this was revealed to Shaw, she had no reason to doubt that the threat lay elsewhere, and removed her helmet. My god the stupidity!
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

allinamberclad

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 10:25 AM
@Kane77 I get the feeling that the Skokomish tribal translation of your name might be, 'Speaks with Good Sense'.

Crabfart

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 10:39 AM
Yes the air was clean notice the words virus and bacteria and booby traps missing from that sentence if your just going to make things up why watch the film at all (if anything it sounded more like they were talking about elements in the immediate surroundings -not even round the corner!). The also hadn't scanned the whole place and the friggin scanners couldn't pick up the green goo or black goo because they were surprised when they found it - if they cant find them what else did they miss - in real life they would of kept the helmets on or died. I know you are just in denial and are sitting there with your fingers in your ears going la la la no it all makes sense but please - most people see it this way the others maybe are a few cup short of a tea set :P ... So just one final question: so if you were there you would of taken your helmet off?

Gavin

MemberTrilobiteAug-13-2012 10:57 AM
@ crabfart... Funny thing is regards your argument is this, no-one falls foul for taking off their helmet. The only two characters to fall foul to the dangers inside the dome, Fifield and Milburn both had there helmets on when their time was up!?!

.

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 11:12 AM
Discussing Plot Holes is a exercise in futility and despair. It is one of Hells favorite damnation's to hand out when you are a naughty human during your time on Earth. staff: Weyland Corp Occult and Sacrificial Services Division, Vatican Italy

Svanya

AdminPraetorianAug-13-2012 1:31 PM
I never understood why people feel the need to push their point of view onto other people. If you liked the movie that is fine, if you didn't like it that is fine too. Just live and let live.

Cerulean Blue

MemberFacehuggerAug-13-2012 3:22 PM
It will be hard to do, i.e. (wait for DVD release on 10/11/12), but I believe that we will get a few answers to some of the questions (not all) that Prometheus has presented! I guess none of us would go to a magic show if we already knew how the tricks were done?

Crabfart

MemberOvomorphAug-13-2012 4:06 PM
Snorkle its a movie they wrote it so taking the helmets off wouldnt kill them myyy godddddd are you saying that for real :D :O (in fact thinking about it like that makes it worse - your actually adding to the power of my argument lol) in real life I would put money on them all being dead within 3 minutes of setting foot inside that place if they acted like this that is part of my point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its another point but if all the technology still worked were the fek was the security - this was a weapons facility of an superior race with a weapon or substance with unbelievable power and they just left the front door open hmmm...another point tho I know... And yer your right (the others) - I just like bantering some times - I had got bored for a while just astonishes me what some people think - it like watching lemmings diving off a cliff - sometimes you just react even though you know they wont stop :P !

zzplural

MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 9:52 AM
@Crabfart: I said this before, but since you ask again: Yes, I would have taken my helmet off. Since you know so much about extraterrestrial virology, it hardly seems appropriate to mention that viruses evolve and co-exist with their hosts over billions of years, and can only infect closely related species. But in your capacity as [i]Professor of General Numptiness and Astrobiology[/i], I imagine that you know better. As Snorkel intimates, though, little good would that have done you had you been on the planet. Take some prozac, for Christ's sake. If you want to do some real moaning, why don't you just plain ask why [i]The Prometheus[/i] didn't land wrapped up in a big plastic tent.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Engineering

MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 10:55 PM
@Svanya...I wasn't trying to push my point of view on anyone. I was just stating that if Prometheus has plot holes then Blade Runner has plot holes then EVERY film has plot holes and that I don't understand why it's okay in one film but not in another. Stupid sh*t in a pretty package is still stupid sh*t. The fact that some people will eat said sh*t because it's presented to them in a better package is just a strange concept to me. I think every film has at least some stupid sh*t in it. I'm willing to except a certain ammount in order to be entertained. As far as BR, with what I listed there are just as many "stupid" elements in it as there are in Pro. If not as many then it's close. [b]Quote=Crabfart... Yes the air was clean notice the words virus and bacteria and booby traps missing from that sentence if your just going to make things up why watch the film at all (if anything it sounded more like they were talking about elements in the immediate surroundings -not even round the corner!). The also hadn't scanned the whole place and the friggin scanners couldn't pick up the green goo or black goo because they were surprised when they found it - if they cant find them what else did they miss - in real life they would of kept the helmets on or died.[/b] I really think that a lot of people have forgotten how to let themselves be entertained. It's a movie, man. I mean, if you're going to talk sh*t about them taking off their helmets then you need to say it was retarded that Blade Runner had flying cars. The cars didn't have any means of propulsion. How did they take off. I know Syd Mead had some reasoning behind it but it seems if we did have flying cars they wouldn't fly the way they would in the film. And we don't have flying cars. That's just one example. I promise that if you give me a list of films you like I could find all kinds of things like this. The fact that they're okay in some and not in Prometheus makes you seem just as idiotic as you see us. It's like you think we will find any way to love the film and you'll find any way to hate it. I get it if people want to complain about certain aspects of the writing or editing or whatever. But to act like everything that happens in every film that YOU like is totally logical and could, would and should be done in our world is just ridiculous. Once again I have to draw the line on that. Find something wrong with the film that doesn't make you look totallt hypocritical. BTW...If you don't like Blade Runner that's cool. But I know that there are tons of films you do like that I could rip apart in the same way you rip Prometheus apart. So, if you want to talk sh*t, you should take you're I'll find a way to hate it attitude and figure out something to bitch about that isn't ludicrously hipocritical.
[IMG]http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q507/Engineering211/sig2.jpg[/IMG]

zzplural

MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 11:31 PM
@Crabfart: Stringing together a series of random and immaterial facts does not constitute an argument. Since you do not appear to have picked up on the hint that your aggressive stance lacks rigour, I will no longer conduct any conversation with you. I suggest you start your own thread. This thread is concerned with the Blade Runner plotholes. I'm sure many readers would be interested in seeing the BR plotholes that you come up with.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

bladerunner93

MemberOvomorphMay-09-2013 2:34 PM
This is a questionnaire which resonates on many of the themes in the film and will help me with my primary research. Questionnaire for research focus group – Blade Runner. 1. Is Deckard a replicant what are your views? 2. How long can Deckard live if he is a non-human? 3. Where are the off world colonies? 4. Why does the city seem so empty and crowded simultaneously? 5. When and why were replicants created? 6. How does the voight kampff test work? 7. Is the best ending version with Deckard as Human and Roy as replicant? 8. Is it possible that Deckard does not know he is a replicant? 9. What is the significance of the unicorn scene and does this signify that in fact this memory was implanted into Deckard’s mind making him a replicant? 10. Was the glow from Deckard’s eye just a lighting accident during filming or this also another sign that Deckard is in fact a replicant? 11. Do you have any other comments or thoughts on blade runner?
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