Aliens- Giant Insects?

I feel i'm banging my head against a Brick Wall lol :-). I think it would be better if i forgot to record Eastenders! Would be a MUCH quicker death! :-) But as Punx said, (on another Post), something to the effect of "No piece of art work should have to be explained in Notes".

@ Patient Leech. you bugger! Thats exactly the way i wanted to word it! Yeah, WHY Paul Reiser as the company W****r? Surely it would have been easier and more effective to have an Android as the Wayne kar! @Patch. I know that the Insects in Aliens looked the way they did because Camoron didn't want to damage the Skull covers,(I have watched the documentary). Not a good enough explanation for me. He should have found a way to work with it! They Are Easy To Kill Giant Insects? That is not what Ridley intended it to be! Therefore the Alien in the Original is not a Xenomorph! It ISN'T a Bug! They look like insects (bugs), they move like insects (bugs) (grasshoppers) The Alien in the Original didn't move like the Xenomorphs! Then there's the fans that try to explain the differences by suggesting that the Original Alien is a Worker (or somethin like that) and the Aliens in the second Film are "Warriors"? Come on!

Your opening a big can of Alien(s) there but many people on this site will provide the needed site information to explain the horrible changes that were witnessed by the fans of the first movie. For the look of the Alien compared to those in Aliens, Cameron did not want the dolphin head (clear dome) because it would be too easily damaged during filming... Other will contribute to your great thread with lots and lots of information. Thanks for posting. :-)

Mmm... human beans... makes me hungry.. :P Um, I'm not sure about how much harder/easier to kill they should have been, but I've always thought that Aliens was just a total rehash of the first film with more aliens, more guns, and a bunch of f#*king obnoxious and poorly disciplined military characters. It repeated the ideas. For example, instead of the android programmed to do the corporation's bidding, it was Paul Reiser. James Cameron even rehashed motifs like the siren at the end and Ripley wielding the flamethrower. It's an entertaining film, but not original and not worthy of the incessant praise that people give it. The original is by far the best Alien film. It provided a unique tone that none of the sequels were ever able to duplicate.

@necronom 4; The "insects" thing comes from the comic book series, I know the warrior type you are talking about was in a comic book. Ridley also decribed the Xeno as insect-like, like an ant.

I don't think there's a soul involved with [i]Alien[/i] who didn't think their creature wasn't patterned on an insect. Scott called it a "biomechanoid insect" and flat-out said, "I wanted him [Kane's Son] to be insect-like. Like an ant. Because if you examine an ant under a microscope they're kind of elegant, and I wanted him to be very elegant and dangerous." He also planned for the Alien to leap all over the place, but couldn't make it work due to the fragile suit tearing. Giger made it clear to Cinefex in 1979: "We decided to make a very elegant creature: quick, and like an insect." As for the Alien apparently dying easily - they're being hit by armour-piercing, [i]explosive[/i] tipped rounds fired at around 1200RPM. As [i]Alien[/i] creator Dan O'Bannon said: "I wanted the critter to be, in every respect, a natural animal, which means yes, if you shoot it, it'll die." he also called the idea of the Alien being unkillable as "the biggest gest-groaner" of all time, and mocked the idea of "bullets won't stop it!" Long story short: http://alienseries.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/insect-influence.html [quote][i]Then there's the fans that try to explain the differences by suggesting that the Original Alien is a Worker (or somethin like that) and the Aliens in the second Film are "Warriors"[/i][/quote] Cameron said in Starlog that the term Warrior was "my term for the single adult Alien as seen in [i]Alien[/i]." Simply put, this warrior/drone distinction isn't from the movies, nor Cameron himself.

Hey all altough i think alien is a real unique movie i really Dont want to compare aliens With starship troopers i really still like the movie because its a great Action movie whom i really Dont want to miss maybe i like the movie so much because of Michael biehn who was a real cool actor in the 80's

I detest how the original design has been changed but has failed to evolve, successfully. It's awe inspiring presence has been obliterated! In Aliens it was give them more & make them shorter. Add a queen & disregard the 'cocooning'.

In Alien 3, it was make them brown. In Resurrection it was a black, dripping wet-look. I hate to mention AvP, but I will! Methinks the Predator wouldn't have found Giger's original such a pushover!!!

I found the first Alien elegant, fascinating & scary. It may have been a man-in-a-suit, but it had a disturbing, menacing quality that has been lost in subsequent films. The Giger/Rimbaldi head creation is still the best creature design I've ever seen!

The Alien is, essentially, a giant, majestic, biomechanical insect-like being. That's where the whole exoskeletal idea came from. Ridley said "where better to look, than mother nature?". As someone who has had an irrational fear of crawling insects, since a childhood incident, what could be more terrifying? :D

What I never understodd was "Armour piercing" bullets make the Aliens blow up like ripe Water-melons, but in the first film Ripley hit the Alien with a plasma-engine with no sign the creature was dead(just distanced) and surely if such explosive bulles apply then such an action would disintergrate said life-form! @patch mate, I thought Cameron (now we have a bloody Prime-minister called that) didn't use the clear dome because he was "more interested in what was going on beneath it". I understand, lighting and all, that such details (when they've been removed from the rest of the body (because the audience doesn't need it and it restricts the atcors in the suits)) that it might be more cinematic. I used to like Aliens, but at the age of 16 I was watching it and the scene were Ripley starts firing grenades all I could see was a MILF sweating, moaning and "pulling off" a penis-compensator... then the whole film was in question. I don't like how things (inside glimpe of the derelict as Mum and Dad enter) was redesigned, how the alien was redesigned, how space travel(I'm talking planetary shuttle(dropship)) became rock'n'roll instead of a slower and more serious bissiness! Cameron seemed to go too far with the fact he was a designer and it stinks of the script he wrote for Rambo 2. Why do they need a queen (an idea that might suit comics, but although not released at the time, I'm sure Cameron was in a position to see it), it is shown that Brett is almost an egg and Dallas is turning into one. Surely slowly, immovable and seemingly unstoppable change is far more terrifying than the "bigger is better" introduction of an alien queen (showing human reactions). The queen lends itself well to computer games, but a movie doesn't need a boss at the end of the level. And then we are rewarded with the (space) family Robinson and dialogue that was cringeworthy at best. Definatley not the way an Alien film should have ended, I think phsycosis would seem more dominent than dreams. Also has any notived how most of the design for Aliens was recycled for Avatar(ded), as well as some of te musicscore? Aliens is the Vietnam war meets Cockroachs!

There are going to be some changes, look at the Space Jockey in Alien to Prometheus.... Its Evolution of Technology.... if Alien had been made in the 60's then the Xeno would look comical by today's standards. I dont think there is a vast difference from Alien and Aliens. Also in Alien the crew was relatively unarmed and not trained soldiers. If you had a blood hungry crazy Polar Bear enter a School that was locked up and so people was stuck inside with the Bear, then how would they fend off the Bear. The Bear would rip them apart. If you took 30 said Bears and got them to invade a Army Base then they would be fodder. I think the same principle applies. If Alien Xeno came face to face in more open environment with a platoon of well armed Colonial Marines then surely it would not fair well..... If the Aliens Xeno was on board the Nostromo and its confined space with a crew of untrained as far as defense and killing space truckers then would that crew fair any better? Nope in both cases. As far as the Bug Goes, well i do see the Xeno as like a Bug or a Crab i see them as a Organism that mainly has a Exo Skeleton rather than a Skeleton like Mammals. The idea of Skeleton was introduced in Predator 2 when we saw a Skull of a Xeno... I suppose what we got is a Organism that in reality is a combination of its genetic make up and structure like that of a Marine Mammal like a Dolphin crossed with a Exo Skeleton like a Scorpion.

@Svanya I do... lol Well not as in insect, remember Arachnids are not Insects, also Crustaceans like Crabs etc. I think like those above the Xeno is mainly a Organism that has a exo skeleton. Also the Xeno Cycle is not like that of a Mammal, the closest none Insect lifeforms it would resemble would be like a Frog. So while not insect, i think there life cycle is more closer to a insect than a Mammal and also there structure more closer to Exo Skeletal than that of a Mammal.

Have just looked up Insect 'A small creature with 6 legs and wings'. The Americans say BUGS instead of insects(i think?) So that would suggest that Hicks Comment in Aliens "It's a Bug Hunt" is incorrect! And he was replying to Gormans comment, calling the Alien "Xenomorph", with Hicks Replying "it's a Bug Hunt"? What's all that about? So in Camerons mind a Xenomorph is an Alien Bug? That is how he gave the Alien its name. But the Alien doesn't have 6 legs and Wings? Neither does the Face Hugger, with 8 legs! (Arachnids?) I prefer to call the Alien 'Necronom' as the Original Alien was based on the Giger Painting 'Necronom IV'

@necronom 4; The Marines in aliens knew nothing about what they were going to encounter. When Hudson says "it's a bug hunt" he isn't referring to the Aliens or anything like that. They use the term "Bug Hunt" for a mission they think will be a waste of time.

@necronom 4; You forgot to tape Eastenders too!! Yeah no, they didn't understand what they were up against and pretty much thought Ripley was nuts when she told them the story about the Xeno she encountered on the Nostromo. ( Lt.Gorman calls it a Xeno as well.) Seems the colonial marines commonly used the term "Bug Hunt" to describe a mission that they think will be a waste of time.

@Svanya, with all due respect, that doesn't make any sense to me. I think it was an attemp to explain the Alien and give it a name! It would have made much more sense if the conversation at the Breifing would have gone something like "We don't know what we're dealing with here, but it is a Hostile, hard to kill, 8 foot, Alien lifeform". Now i MUST go record Emmerdale and Coranation Street for the Wife or she will make large hole in my head with her inner jaw!!!

"... the unknown is the depth of our fear, so deep is that fear as to become realit..ttt...ty..." uttered by the last surviving android enforcer. The horde of aliens swept over the discarded remains of human technology and continued on their march towards the settlements. Swift, with instinctive furiosity, they moved like a river from Hell's keep. staff: Weyland Corp. Colony Monitoring and Data storage Unit. Deep Space Network

for the love of god not this again, 1: yes aliens is dumbed down from the first movie 2:its still very good in its own way 3:they were always insects from the very start, don't give me that 4:they look exactly the same, even the head was like that in the first movie under the doam, the doam was removed in the second movie because they would keep cracking in all of the action. 5:just because the queen idea is not as interesting as the morphing idea from the first movie does not mean its stupid, remember the morphing scene was deleted, they had no way of knowing back then and had do make up a new way for reproduction aka the queen and in my opinion is a very smart idea, the most realistic thing a species like this would do since the chestburster in the first movie and if you think about it both of the ideas could work together, like a back up to the queen if you will 6:no aliens did not rip off alien. [b]not at all.[/b] the plots and storys and underlying meanings are completelly diferent, and i really dont care how much they both had the self destruct and airlock scenes at the end. i will agree that all the alien movies are actually the same thing, as in each movie is not a continuation of the last, but rather a new form of the same thing told by a different director. but they are still completely different in the plot department, seriously people who complain about aliens ripping of alien mineaswell say that episode six (star wars) ripped of episode 4 because they blew up the death star in the end, so you know have the right to shut up. 7:the characters in alien are just as bad as the ones in aliens,no wait, they are worse. yeah yeah aliens characters were really one dimensional and unrealistic, but hey at least they were entertaining to watch!!!!! non of the characters in the first movie had any depth deeper then a t-spoon (besides ash of course) i mean i love them all, but when you are a big nerd like me who dissects every single little detail, that tends to happen.[img]http://www.beefjack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/2326-468x-nintendo-nerd-lord.jpg[/img]lets be honest, if you were an average movie watcher you would not give a shit about any of them, don't lie to yourself. 8:and finally please go look back and read my old thread [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/1901]alien vs aliens[/url] within i talk about how aliens is much better then how you all make it out to be, and how alien is actually not as good as you make it out to be thanks, i hope i was a help to you all :D

also quick note, i do not like aliens more, even if i made it seem like that, alien is the far better film but i love aliens also :)

It's ok I'm from the Internet!

think that the term xenomorph actualy doesnt apply o the creatures in the alien movies, beacause 1. gorman said that a "xenmorph maybe involved" , this implies that they have incounted he species before. but when they came across the alien creature they were total un prepared for what they came across. With burke being involved with the "rescue".....his hidden agenda was to return an alien specimen to the company and have exclusive rights to the profits.

And to get back to topic... Ridley always wanted the Alien in his film to move the way the Aliens did in Cameron's films but he couldn't achieve it because of the fragility of the suit they used. When Cameron made his film he removed the dome after realizing it damaged too easily and to give the creatures more definition in the sets lighting. Both Ridley and Jim are fans of each others Alien films. And both Ridley and Jim have referred to the creature as an insectoid parasite. And remember not all insects are small - in fact the first insects were much, much larger than today's insects.

@ Pulserifle.... Xenomorph means alien form, as in an unidentified, unknown enemy. It was because of Aliens that we have since called the creature the Xenomorph. @ Necronom4... Look at the context in which the term is used "is this a stand up fight sir, or another bug hunt", in other words "are we going into combat or wasting our time". This was a team of lazy and inexperienced marines with an inexperienced CO. Remember that the "Company" knew what was down there, they knew what was on LV-426 but did not inform the marines, the only people who truly knew for certain what was down there in the rescue team were Ripley, and to a degree, Burke.

Indeed, the xenos in aliens seemed a bit more like insects than in Alien, but what if Alien had numerous xenos?...they would have seemed like insects in that film as well...glossy dome or no glossy dome. I think that the nature of one lone killer in alien helps us to remove drawing a parallel to known life forms like insects here on earth. I like the polar bear analogy. The marines are armed to the teeth and xenos are no match for explosive tipped armor piercing rounds. Regardless, the marine firepower and armor still doesn't defend them from the resulting acid spraying about. I was so horrified by Alien as a young kid that when Aliens hit the theaters, I was kind of relieved that the marines had something in which to fight the aliens with. Sure it took the whole "indestructible" feel away from them, but I was released none the less.

@Snorkelbottom. I think the conversation went something like, HUDSON"Is this guna be a stand up fight or another Bug Hunt". GORMAN "a Xenomorph may be involved". Then, without missing a beat Hicks replies "It's a Bug Hunt". I would think that Ripley had already given Gorman detailed descriptions.... People saying "They had that conversation because they didn't know what they were dealing with" Really doesn't make any sense to me! No, they wouldn't have known what they were dealing with BUT, surely It would have made alot more sense for Gorman to say, in replie to Hudsons question with "We don't know exactly what we are dealing with here, but it is a Hostile Alien Lifeform" To me it was Camerons way of telling us that they are Bugs! (which they are not) If that was not his intention, then WHY did they move like Bugs (GrassHoppers) and reproduce like Bugs (Egg laying Queen) Which Hudson also compared to Ants? Also, it was a way of giving it a name. Also, on one of the Documentarys, Ridley said that he got the Bloke in the Suit 'Bolaji Badejo' doing mime to express Slow, Deliberate, Spooky, Alien Movement which is quite different to Aliens Fast, Aggressive, Wall Hopping and Jumping movements!

@necronom 4 › we already went over this!!! they ARE meant to be bugs!!!! or at least similar!!!! people compare the queen to bugs, true but you know what else bugs do? THEY LAY EGGS INSIDE LIVING HOSTS THAT EAT THEM FROM THE INSIDE!!!! just saying, bugs are not a bad thing, and idk about you but bugs Fing creep me out thats for sure :( also do you know why it was slow and creepy in the first and fast and aggressive in the second??? because the first one was a horror movie, the second was action (also because the suit in the first movie couldn't handle fast movements, it ripped when he came out of the wall in the end). thats why, you cant make an action movies with slow creepy visuals, and if you say then it shouldn't have been an action movie then you are disliking it because you dont like that kind of movie (and thats fine) but that does not make the movie bad on its own merits.

also Camerons idea for the queen came from under sea life, not bugs. just thought i would throw that out there.

@invaderzim42. Thanx man! That as cleared things up for me, sort of. I think that people who either really like Aliens or Love it, will defend it to the death and come up with their own explinations for its flaws!!! And people who take a neutral stand point, who LOVE Alien, will see that there is something fundementally(sic) wrong with Aliens! I LOVE Alien! and as far as i'm concerned, Aliens somehow cheapens Alien! That's just my opinion, obviously!

I believe they may have a hierarchy similar to insects, like ants. I believe the deacon represents this. In the first alien, the Xeno was the star of the movie. In the later ones it was not, I feel that's where they went wrong...

I just always felt that the Alien in the Original was somehow other worldly ie Not like anything else we would recognise. The Aliens in the second film just remind me of a very large version of something i would find hanging from a web on my Window. The Original Alien wasn't at all like that! It was more human in its movements and Very Spooky! It reminded me of a Demon God! That's almost impossible to kill. It seems i'm on my own with this one But nothing will persuade me otherwise! :-) Not even James Cameron himself! The Alien was "Perfect" the way it was! Necronom is its name NOT Xenomorph lol :-)

we are not saying you are wrong with alien, yeah when you just watch the movie that's what it seems like, we are just saying that aliens is not bad, its just different, and that's fine. oh, and btw i always thought the one part where the alien was walking towards Lambert was slow motion. i mean i know that he walked slow anyway but i was always kind of under the impression he was like not running but like briskly and violently walking towards her? but in slow motion? they may just be me idk lol