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The FINAL Canon Debate

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Gavin

Jul-25-2012 9:33 AM

PINNEDMany, many times other members and myself have put forward the possibility that the following film franchises all exist within the same fictional universe and are thus all canon to one another... [center][b]Predator - AVP - Prometheus - Alien[/b][/center] ...Yet many, many naysayers and detractors voice their opinions stating this is not the case. 9 times out of 10, such arguments are subjective, from individuals whom don't like the idea. Now, while some of those supporting the idea of these franchises existing within the same universe may also have subjective arguments, I do not. I have looked at this debate from an objective point of view and always reach the same conclusions... - There is more information in the movies to suggest they are all set within the same fictional universe - There is no contradictory information in the movies that states otherwise - There has not been any official statement stating otherwise To that end I challenge the naysayers to disprove, with verifiable sources for their information and statements, why these franchises are not part of the same universe.

194 Responses to The FINAL Canon Debate

Engineer Tech Brett

Nov-21-2013 7:59 AM

Hahahaha, just read this thread over again. Good to see its still going.

Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.

Xenotaris

Nov-26-2013 2:55 AM

Ok I think I heard that the reason why Prometheus (back when it was called the untitled alien prequel) They wanted to reboot the Alien franchise but they wanted Ridley at the helm. Also since Ridley Scott is one of the surviving co-creator of Aliens, I think his Word-of-God statements have more weight than anything that low born director/writier/Producer Paul Willy Surfing Anderson says. I happened to agree 100% of what ETB says and Dave1, AVP is not canonical for various reasons. The Timelines contradict eachother No mention of Predators by word or visual reference in the Pure Alien series ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also we have to look at both the Engineers and the Predator origins: Engineers created life on our planet with Black Goo, its not a streatch to believe that Xenomorphs are from this substance too as seen with the Deacon, Mutant Fitfiled, Trilobite, and Hammerpede. The Engineers were also on the planet earth (longer than the predators) when humans were beginning civilization (possibly the Engineers helped kick start or simply guided humanity like what gods would). Ok now the predator side of the debate, Predators somehow have the ability to make xenomorphs and spread them across the galaxy without a single care in the universe. They Teach humans to build on an Antarctica. oh Antarctica was once free ice! (Although that might of been true, but the true reason why antarctica is frozen is beacuse its position on the globe and the surrounding cold water currents. The true non frozen Antarctica was still attached to Austrailia which was millions of years ago before humans ever appeared on the planet earth!) Predators teaching another sapient being civilization seems out of character for Predators. Seems like a waste of time to teach a minor race how to build then kill them off with the xenomorphs which if we make AVP canonicly with the ALIEN/PROMETHUS universe means the predators stole them and then being uncharactily stupid and plant xenomorphs on an Engineer controlled world Which begs the question why would they seed a planet that has Engineers on it! If we take A:CM's engineer scene as canon, we would assume that the "good" engineers would not stand idle by while another Alien race uses xenomorphs (possible made by the Bad Engineers) in their backyard! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prometheus is a first in a trilogy of Alien Prequel movie, so until (which I doubt) that a Predator appears or was mentioned in any shape or form in Paradise or the Final Prequel. AVP is still not Canonical, not to mention that AVP actively contradicts Both respected franchises: Predator vision has wrong color schemes, Predators hunting in the snow as opposed to hunting in hot areas like Jungles or Urban areas, Xenomorphs looking like A:R era genetic Xenos (just painted a dark blue),

S.M

Sep-25-2016 7:50 PM

State of the canon:

Prometheus

Covenant

Alien

Alien Isolation

Defiance

Out Of The Shadows

Aliens

River of Pain

Fire & Stone (Aliens)

Alien3

Fire & Stone (Prometheus, AvP, Predator, Omega)

Life & Death

Alien Resurrection

Weyland-Yutani Report

Sea of Sorrows

The Rage War

Gavin

Sep-26-2016 2:17 AM

@ S.M.

Surely if, as you state, Fire and Stone are canon to the Alien universe then by extension so too would be the three Predator movies and the two AVP movies, seeing as they too feature the Predator creature. But didn't Ridley retcon AVP's Charles Bishop Weyland out of the continuity with having Peter Weyland found Weyland Industries. Thus anything that attempts to include Predators in the same universe would not be canon, yes?

The fact that the comic books have to be retconned every time a new movie comes out would surely negate their inclusion as canon.

If the W-Y report is considered canon why not is the Colonial Marines Technical Manual.

Surely when it comes down to the bare bones of it all the only true canon is just the movies - Prometheus, Alien Covenant, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection?

Patient Leech

Sep-26-2016 9:02 AM

Originally posted by genjitsu17:

...I dunno, just seems stupid to also have 2 simultaneous ancient alien stories going on. Having the Engineers and the Predators both visiting humans would have caused some trouble, i think. Just my opinion.

This. That's pretty much what I thought when I rewatched AVP a couple months ago. I think that's enough to establish AVP as non-canon.

S.M

Sep-26-2016 9:38 PM

"Surely if, as you state, Fire and Stone are canon to the Alien universe then by extension so too would be the three Predator movies and the two AVP movies, seeing as they too feature the Predator creature. But didn't Ridley retcon AVP's Charles Bishop Weyland out of the continuity with having Peter Weyland found Weyland Industries. Thus anything that attempts to include Predators in the same universe would not be canon, yes?"

Not sure of the canonicity of the AvP films (and Predator) at this point.

"The fact that the comic books have to be retconned every time a new movie comes out would surely negate their inclusion as canon."

The current comics and novels have tried as much as possible not to tread on things covered by Covenant, so as to not create a situation where they'll need to be retconned.  That said, things touted as canon can always be untouted (like Colonial Marines).

"If the W-Y report is considered canon why not is the Colonial Marines Technical Manual."

Not sure.  Possibly because a lot of the events detailed in the final chapter are apocryphal.  Most of the technical data in the CMTM remains canon however.

woody599

Oct-20-2016 4:42 PM

woody599 ere,

hmm its exciting times!

 

woody599

oliver.alien

Jan-16-2017 1:58 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Y_Tjohrfo&t=59s

 

Good video! I recommend! Top 10 Alien Movie moments!

LongLiveNewt

Mar-18-2017 7:07 AM

The only films I personally consider canon are: Prometheus-Covenant-Alien-Aliens, the rest are stand-alone fanfic efforts as far as I'm concerned, especially all the garbage Predator/AvP tie in stuff (though the comics aren't bad).

In place of all that, I consider the first Dark Horse Aliens series/Steve Perry's "Earth Hive", "Nightmare Asylum" and "Female War" to be the true conclusion of the Ripley/Newt (Billie)/Hix (Wilks) story, because they are actually really good - unlike the abominations that are Alien 3 & 4.

 

 

 

 

IndyFront

Jun-21-2017 2:19 PM

@Long-Live-newt: Agreed. I chalk it up to closely-guarded W-Y/state secrets involving controversial experimentation involving MK-Ultra-esq technology (but on steroids).

mnnnn

Jul-30-2018 12:20 AM

 I wonder what Paul Anderson say about Prometheus?

since I know there is a way could play blue ray on PC, I just want to have a try.

 

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