Close
Trending Articles
Featured Blogs
Featured Merchandise
Scified Network

The FINAL Canon Debate

1 Upvotes194 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
Forum Topic

Gavin

Jul-25-2012 9:33 AM

PINNEDMany, many times other members and myself have put forward the possibility that the following film franchises all exist within the same fictional universe and are thus all canon to one another... [center][b]Predator - AVP - Prometheus - Alien[/b][/center] ...Yet many, many naysayers and detractors voice their opinions stating this is not the case. 9 times out of 10, such arguments are subjective, from individuals whom don't like the idea. Now, while some of those supporting the idea of these franchises existing within the same universe may also have subjective arguments, I do not. I have looked at this debate from an objective point of view and always reach the same conclusions... - There is more information in the movies to suggest they are all set within the same fictional universe - There is no contradictory information in the movies that states otherwise - There has not been any official statement stating otherwise To that end I challenge the naysayers to disprove, with verifiable sources for their information and statements, why these franchises are not part of the same universe.

194 Responses to The FINAL Canon Debate

CULT

Jul-25-2012 4:19 PM

But what is the purpose of looking for Cannon, really? The rules can change at any directors' whim.. the rules are just made-up as they go alone.. but, hey, on second thought that's a pretty good working definition of 'Cannon' - that and dealing w/ contradictions.. just my 2 cents.

genjitsu17

Jul-25-2012 4:32 PM

Nice call Brett!!

I may work for the company, but im really an OK guy.

CULT

Jul-25-2012 4:32 PM

..and by 'director' I mean anyone with enough clout to push the franchise (and that's such a better word than Cannon, I'm so sorry) in whatever direction they wish. Speaking of loose ends when's the Peter/Chares W. connection ever gonna be flushed out...

CULT

Jul-25-2012 4:45 PM

...or lack off I should say, ...right. ...and while on topic why shouldn't Blade Runner be added into the same mix (other than a few time line contradictions) but maybe the dates were changed to protect the innocent? I say BR has more of a 'right' to exist as Holy Cannon w/ ALIEN than the rest of the trippe.. even if the dots don't all line up, the distopian, thematic, and stylalized vision all do.. ...right.

David 1

Jul-25-2012 4:48 PM

Nrlfetmefan and Snorkelbottom: As for seing the way one wants, it is obvious to the lot that Nrlfetmefan is disregarding the fact that ALIEN is a stand-alone movie prior to any Pred movie. Did Schwarzie fight a Xeno? NO HE DID NOT. Was he employed by Weyland? NO HE WAS NOT. Get over it. Snorks: Saying that a Pred doesn't make it's appearance in any of the Alien movies is not a sign of it not being in the same Universe is as a much of a fallacy as saying "just because a dog barks it doesn't mean he is really a dog". Sensless. I understand the desire to put the Alien and the Preds together for action sake, but please... two diferent creations from two diferent people. Blame it on the game makers.

[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

CULT

Jul-25-2012 4:57 PM

There' s something very wrong w this logic (but why call it that?)

shambs

Jul-25-2012 5:03 PM

I have read comments from fans who think that only Scott's Alien is canon. So according to this Canon is just what I like, and the rest to hell.

David 1

Jul-25-2012 5:09 PM

Shambala: And I'm one of them. ALIEN is THE Canon. The rest is fan made stuff to cash in at someone elses creation. Like a painter trying to make an extention to the original paintings of the Sistine Chapel. mehh.

[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

.

Jul-25-2012 5:29 PM

I haz a karrot.

Fan

Jul-25-2012 5:36 PM

@david1 Yes I am seeing it the way that I want. I am free to do so and can back it up with very basic logic....this does not make me foolish. Thus far you have not quoted one single interview or article dismissing the other movies. Why don't you just show us something aside from your personal opinion and settle this once and for all? You up for that challenge? BRING IT ON! It your options are right, we still all win the battle of having a greater understanding of the alien universe. ;)

ALL generalizations are WRONG!

David 1

Jul-25-2012 5:43 PM

Nrlfetmefan: Mate, it seems to me so sensles such a request when you - one who defends the same universe stuff - can't present neither footage not even quotes from the dudes that made the ALIEN movies. And there you go mate. P.S.: Sir Ridley stated him self he hates AVP. Give us all a quote from an Alien movie maker that says "oh yes, Predators are in the same Universe, totally. You can't see them 'cause they are cloaked and stuff". Guess what? You'll never find any of those. BECAUSE THEY ARE TWO DIFERENT MOVIE UNIVERSES. Hope you feel enlightened now. If not... welll, sorry for that. Keep searching.

[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

.

Jul-25-2012 5:44 PM

I still haz karrots...

Fan

Jul-25-2012 6:04 PM

Quote from snorks: - There is more information in the movies to suggest they are all set within the same fictional universe - There is no contradictory information in the movies that states otherwise - There has not been any official statement stating otherwise Prove it wrong david1...that's all I ask.

ALL generalizations are WRONG!

David 1

Jul-25-2012 6:13 PM

lolololol. There is no information that my neighbours cat plays Dungeons & Dragons late at night... that surely means that he does.

[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

Fan

Jul-25-2012 6:25 PM

One night I peeked into your neighbors house and saw two cats....I [email protected] you not...playing d&d...the tabby was the dm.

ALL generalizations are WRONG!

David 1

Jul-25-2012 6:36 PM

LOLOLOL. good one.

[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

allinamberclad

Jul-25-2012 6:59 PM

@Nrlfetmefan I can't help find this whole initial position and a lot of the following discussion a little odd, 'though?.. Isn't it hopeless to expect an objective of "Show declaration that X, Y and Z is not canon", to actually be answered?! As if we are discussing so many entries in Excel workbooks?.. What that objective would require, in actual practice, is that one Author would publicly denounce another Author's work as invalid: when neither of them own the Property under discussion and where the one Author has a relationship he wants to maintain with the Owner of the Property - he being a Studio - and also a professional reputation and personal life he probably wants to be kept free of bad blood, prima-donna drama, and ridiculous in-fighting... surely, this is an impossible position? Furthermore, the objective seems to be setting a , "burden of disproof" - which does seem a little cart-before-the-horse, to me, but, nevertheless: in respect of [i]both[/i] these things, I can't help think that @Svanya, with her usual economy, has plotted the best and soundest course - assuming you give additional weight to the opinions of those Author's with original or earliest interest in terms of defining the basis of canon, [which would seem reasonable], and also make an allowance for the diplomacy that will necessarily be required in the delivery of those opinions, [which would seem sensible and discriminating] - surely the objective is as good as answered?

Sentinel

Jul-25-2012 7:01 PM

I liked the idea of AVP in comic form just to satisfy my curiosity of how things might turn out but the films were B-movies at best. Ridley Scott said he didn't even watch any of the AVP's. I don't blame him, they suck, they suck bad. It was kind of a cool little Easter egg in Predator 2 of the "possible" Alien skull trophy, but any more than that is making a joke of both franchises. Besides, the more interesting dilemma after age 20 is not who can kick whose ass but who are they, why do they want to kill us and how can we get out of this mess?

David 1

Jul-25-2012 7:03 PM

Of course we can always demonstrate without a shadow of a doubt that the Preds are in ALL ALIEN movies: http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9366

[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

shambs

Jul-25-2012 7:04 PM

@David 1, I do not agree with you with the Alien is the only canon. Ok Alien is a masterpiece but to say that the rest of movie is not canon is like saying I do not like the new trilogy of Star Wars and therefore is not canon. IMHO the Canon is independent of taste or subjective statements of the fans. regards

Cyberdeath

Jul-25-2012 7:05 PM

(high-fives) Nice work Snorkelbottom, I'm glad we finally cleared this up. It's a good thing this is finally once and for all settled.

.

Jul-25-2012 8:48 PM

Canon, wasn't he the heavy set TV Detective with the great voice??? [img]http://museumofuncutfunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Frank-Cannon.jpg[/img]

FREEZE!

Jul-25-2012 8:56 PM

^^ Hahah Patch!

[url=http://www.madmax4-movie.com/]Visit the Mad Max: Fury Road Forums today![/url]

Engineer Tech Brett

Jul-26-2012 2:31 AM

- There is more information in the movies to suggest they are all set within the same fictional universe [b]- There is no contradictory information in the movies that states otherwise[/b][i][u][/u][/i] - There has not been any official statement stating otherwise Like I said on page two, Alien V Predator is set in 2004 with Charles Bishop Weyland as owner of Weyland Industries. Prometheus has now told us that Weyland Industries didn't form until 2012 and was founded by Sir Peter Weyland. Im going to side with Prometheus on this one as to what is canon.

Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.

Custodian

Jul-26-2012 3:05 AM

Shambhala, don't, or I'll unleash MIDICLORIANS on your 'force'. ;)

2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

shambs

Jul-26-2012 3:29 AM

@FreePlanet, all my sith lightning are directed to David 1 muahaha [img]http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s402/Albertocrazy86/sw6_2004-palpatine-1.gif[/img]

Dustie

Jul-26-2012 5:23 AM

Saw Prometheus yesterday evening. To me, neither Predator movies fit in the Alien storyline, considering the proto-Alien is born at the end of Prometheus. Predator, Predator 2 and AvP movies show that Aliens and Eggs were present before earliest man civilizations. Predator 2 shows Alien skull on board of the Predator ship. How would that be possible, if the proto-Alien was born through an unexpected mixing between black ooze, humans, human-to-human transition and Engineers/SpaceJockeys, during the events on Prometheus, long, long after the events of Predator movies? We suspect it takes another step for the proto-Alien to evolve into actual Aliens. Another combination must result in a Facehugger, Eggs and/or Alien Queen. For actual Aliens to appear long before Prometheus, there would have to be an unlikely string of events exactly the same as on board of Prometheus: black ooze from the wazes+human male+human female=proto-Facehugger, proto-Facehugger+Engineer/SpaceJockey=proto-Alien. How likely is it, that such unusual mixing took place on numerous occasions before? Actually, one could argue that Prometheus cancels out any Predator storylines in general, considering there were never Aliens for them to hunt before Prometheus first messed with the Engineer/SpaceJockey spaceship. What do you guys think?

Engineer Tech Brett

Jul-26-2012 5:31 AM

@Dustie, I see where you are coming from but you have forgotten one thing. The Derelict in Alien was on LV-426 for a long time, before the events of prometheus, and was carrying Eggs already.

Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.

Fan

Jul-26-2012 7:10 AM

@alienamberclad I do see your point. I don't think that the writers and directors are the people that get to dictate what exists and does not in the existing alien universe. I would think that would be left to the owners of the property. Who is that by the way? Is that fox or Giler and Hill? I am sure one of you can answer this....I can't. @Brett Good point...I have also wondered about the timeline where Charles Weyland vs Peter Weyland are concerned. Is Charles his father or uncle or something? Is there a clear timeline out there? After searching on the Internet a bit, I did find an alien wiki that suggests that Charles was his father, but the site also said that the "bishop" from alen3 was Michael Weyland. Michael was an engineer who designed the bishop model after his likeness and Michael happens to look very similar to Charles being a close relative. I don't know about all of that...seems a little scetchy. @ dusty The answer that we all are waiting for about the derelict from alien and all the eggs on board has yet to be shown. I always thought that the derelict was very old, older than the events during promet

ALL generalizations are WRONG!

pulserifle187

Jul-26-2012 7:45 AM

i dont really like AVP, mainly on the ground that the xenomorph would slaughter the predator easily. the AVP disgrace the xenomorph. I like the predator movies, its a prettty cool creature. not too sure about his weapony though....if he looked the wrong way a fired, he would shoot himself in the back of the head

"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"
Add A Reply

Sign in to add a reply to this topic!

Get Your Godzilla vs. Kong Sweater!
Godzilla Christmas Seqter
New Topics

ADVERTISEMENT

Latest Activity
Member
Why Godzilla: The Series Was Great just surpassed 1,000 views!
Member
Onslaught550 commented on the image: Ghidorah Painting
Member
New Godzilla vs. Kong POP! Figures just surpassed 10,000 views!

ADVERTISEMENT

ADVERTISEMENT

Ad

Scified is an entertainment media network covering the latest news on the most popular, upcoming science fiction movies, games and television. All content is property of Scified.com unless otherwise stated. Images and names of content we promote, discuss, review or report are property of their respective owners. Scified is independantly owned and operated by a team of dedicated sci-fi movie fans, who strive to provide the best information and community experience for other like-minded sci-fi movie enthusiasts.

© 2020 Scified.com