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deftones1986
MemberOvomorphJul-18-2012 6:32 PMI just wanted to post this piece to provoke disucuss behind the 'suggestion' that the movie just may ultimately be about the mysteries of life, and the whole purpose of Ridley Scott creating this never ending quest for answers in the form of a film, only to leave pretty much every single question asked by the characters obviously [b]unanswered[/b], is for it to be just that....The unsolvable mystery. And to make us 'understand' per-say, that this is whats ultimately so beautiful, yet eerie about life.
Pretty neat little reading for when you have Prometheus on the mind (and everything that comes along with it.)
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Ayn Rand, the originator of objectivism philosophy, went mad and committed suicide. How could this happen to such a rare, logical mind? ***
Precisely! It happened because of such a logical, rational mind. The rational mind cannot go beyond suicide and madness. That is the ultimate that has to happen. If some logical person is not mad it simply means that he is not logical enough. If some logical person has not committed suicide yet, it simply means that he is mediocre. He has not touched the pinnacle of logicality. If you reach to the pinnacle of logicality, life loses all meaning – because logic cannot give any meaning. Logic takes away all meaning. Logic is destructive, poisonous.
It is love that gives meaning to life, it is love that blooms and flowers, it is love that sings and dances; it is love that becomes celebration. A logical mind by and by loses all possibility of loving – because love is so illogical it cannot exist with logic. They prohibit each other, they exclude each other. If you love, you become illogical; if you are very logical, you become unloving. And without love, what is there to live by, to live with, to live for? What is there?
Ayn Rand was a very egoistic, rationalistic, realistic woman. Her philosophy is that of absolute selfishness. If you are absolutely selfish, how can you be loving? It is impossible. Her philosophy is absolutely realistic, materialistic. When there is only matter, what is there to bloom into? There is no soul. All search disappears. Life is flat and dull. There is no mystery. With the soul enters mystery and life. With mystery there is joy, because there is a possibility to enquire, to explore, to expand.
There is a possibility that something may happen, can happen.
Man is more than he knows. You are more than you know. Not only that, you are more than you can ever know, because your intrinsic reality remains mysterious, always remains unknown, unknowable.
You can go on knowing more and more and more but that does not reduce your mystery. That’s what we mean by soul – utterly mysterious. For Ayn Rand there was no mystery. When there is no mystery, how can there be life? Then what is there to live for? Suicide seems to be the logical conclusion. And if you don’t commit suicide, then madness is the conclusion. Those seem to be the two alternatives. Either go mad – mad means go illogical, drop your rational mind – or commit suicide, drop this useless life.
Jean-Paul Sartre has said: ‘Man is a useless passion.’ Now my feeling is that Sartre is not very, very logical, otherwise he would have committed suicide. If man is a useless passion, if there is no meaning in it, if life is meaninglessness, then why go on living? Why think of tomorrow – that you would like to exist tomorrow? That is very irrational. If nothing is going to happen, if nothing has ever happened, if nothing happens in the very reality, then why go on living? Why go on eating and why go on sleeping and getting up again and again? It is nauseating.
Another book of Sartre’s is Nausea. But it seems it is still philosophical, he has not taken it existentially – otherwise suicide would be the logical conclusion to the philosophy. Beware. These possibilities are in you too. If you become too logical, madness or suicide or both will be the conclusion.
That’s why I teach you love not logic, feeling not reasoning, heart not mind. Then life has such beauty, such beatitude, such joy, that one cannot contain it. It is so much, it is so over-flowing, so overwhelming.
You ask me: Ayn Rand, the originator of objectivism philosophy, went mad and committed suicide. How could this happen to such a rare, logical mind?
I say ’Precisely. ’
-Osho
From Sufis: The People of the Path, Vol. 2, Chapter Ten
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***For the record: Ayn Rand in fact, and in real life, did not commit suicide.
Ayn Rand died of heart failure, on March 6, 1982, in New York City.
For some reason the creator of this piece wanted to make it seem that way. I assume to make some kind of point. But that's another story altogether I suppose... So here's to hoping you just enjoyed the text for what it was and the thoughts it provokes!!!
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[url=http://o-meditation.com/2012/05/18/for-ayn-rand-there-was-no-mystery-osho/]Click Here For Link To Source Website[/url]
25 Replies
allinamberclad
MemberOvomorphJul-18-2012 7:14 PM[i]"Ayn Rand in fact, and in real life, did not commit suicide.
Ayn Rand died of heart failure, on March 6, 1982, in New York City.
For some reason the creator of this piece wanted to make it seem that way. I assume to make some kind of point".
[/i]
The point it strongly suggests to me, is that he or she doesn't actually know what he or she is talking about - or is just plainly telling convenient lies: and that fact undermines every single other thing he or she has to say.
She did not die as is claimed - furthermore, neither was her philosophy that of, "absolute selfishness"?
She advocated that the Self was important - of intrinsic and fundamental value in terms of individual happiness and development.
That is something quite different.
This is to do with the emancipation of the Self in pursuit of liberation of the Self's interests and values - the sovereignty of Self in pursuance of the Self's [i]full potential[/i], not the disregard of other responsibilities.
Sorry, but this seems full of dishonesties and shady half-truths, all in order to drive at some very questionable points and conclusions about, "passion"?
I find it intolerable.
deftones1986
MemberOvomorphJul-18-2012 7:25 PMGrrr I was worried this would be taken the wrong way.
I didn't want you guys to take the context literally, and as a basis for some kind of book report or such.
Just to have fun with the idea that there is a REASON why we are always seeking answers to questions that logically can't be answered.
One of her quotes is:
"God... a being whose only definition is that he is beyond man's power to conceive."
If that's true, than man can not and logically should not go any further in his search for the physical God. The answer is there: God can not be understood or perceived due to the limitations of mans senses and awareness.
So the question is WHY, why do we keep trying, instead of giving up?
Because that's the key to all of life's mysteries, they NEED to exist in order for life (human life) to keep on going, and recreating,
If we all knew for a fact, without a doub, (inside our own minds is the key here) that there was nothing, no meaning, nothing could ever be fully understood.....then there would be a lot more suicides wouldn't there?
Didn't really wanna make this an argument per-say AT ALL lol, but my fun little article I found turned out to be not so fun I guess.....
Feel me?
sukkal
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 12:31 AM
I get all of my info on Ms. Rand from [url=http://www.gorevidalnow.com/2011/06/gore-vidal-on-ayn-rand-in-1961-she-has-a-great-attraction-for-simple-people/]Gore Vidal[/url] and I wouldn't have it any other way. 8)
joeyjoe
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 1:44 AM@sukkal: And with the above-written you are attempting to underscore the notion that you are uninformed, dogmatic, and proud?
nysalor
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 5:32 AMI suppose if we're going to be chatting about weird American cultists we could bring in El Ron as well. he didn't have Rand's fixation with rape, but he sure knew his aliens. In fact, they knew each other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5YWTFW5WMw
nysalor
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 5:42 AMdeftones:
"If we all knew for a fact, without a doub, (inside our own minds is the key here) that there was nothing, no meaning, nothing could ever be fully understood.....then there would be a lot more suicides wouldn't there?"
No there'd be a lot more adults.
We make our our light.
RSAND
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 7:30 AMAyn Rand was a mean spirited narcissistic bi*** whose philosophy to treat the common man with -at the very least- disdain but more accurately, as slaves is unfortunately still active by one political party in the US.
In the end, all she proved to be was a hypocrite as she accepted the social programs she fought so fervently against.
RSAND
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 8:46 AMWell said sukkal.
She was indeed a nasty and strange little person. All you have to do is to look at who idolize her today: Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck. Nut jobs in their own right to say the least.
It's so odd that these same three people would dare to call themselves followers of Jesus without even knowing what that entails.
joeyjoe
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 12:47 PM@RSAND:
"Ayn Rand was a mean spirited narcissistic bi*** whose philosophy to treat the common man with -at the very least- disdain but more accurately, as slaves is unfortunately still active by one political party in the US."
-still active by ONE political party in the US??? really? just one? Please...spare me the naive rhetoric.
RSAND
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 1:35 PMjoeyjoe
Don't EVER call me naive. And that's correct. I never saw a liberal follower of this person.
I was designing fighter planes before you were even born!
If you'd like to continue this, PM me. Otherwise, kiss my ass.
Membrane
MemberFacehuggerJul-19-2012 1:56 PMThere are plenty of [i][u]fill in the blank(s)[/u][/i] in [b]ALL[/b] political parties. After all, political parties consist of humans.
Haujobb - Membrane / Acretongue Remix
xenodochy
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 2:03 PMIsn’t Beauty in the mind of the beholder? Along with Love? And what is Love – just unity with another. So Love is probably the most Logical state of mind we can ever experience. Don’t forget that the human mind never makes a mistake. It can’t because it can do no other than follow its programming, even though circumstances change and health confounds you.
God? What’s that? Firstly it’s a concept poorly understood and badly described handed down to each new generation from their parents or nurturers. The further we spin from Biblical times, for Christians like Dr Shaw, say, the more the image of God decays. God occupies the focus of belief not certain knowledge and so sits outside Logic although increasingly so-called scientific minds believe in the existence of an organising power: “How can all this have occurred except through the execution of an omniscient power?”
Logic; belief; love; time; just three dimensions with your coffee, Sir/Madam?
The real problem we have to overcome is our loopy inability to work alongside one another: to communicate without trying to oppose and dominate. Pull together and suddenly the need to work subserviently to this oligarch or that tyrant or even, sadly, your friendly, door-stepping but power thirsty representative of democracy! The logic of all of them is a world away from what we’re told about monotheistic God.
So when you get to the Pearly Gates, Mr Christian, St Peter is going to ask you one question: did you enjoy that? Be careful how you answer. Your logic may not be, as Mr Lovecraft intoned, the same as God’s and every politician will be accompanying every attorney to a different destination, no fee charging allowed.
joeyjoe
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 2:26 PM@RSAND: Clearly, i DID call you naive. I wasn’t suggesting that Ms. Rand had any number of liberal followers. Obviously, I was suggesting that it is naive to believe that one political party (of the two main parties) is somehow the champion of the common man while the other is looking to enslave the common man. It is painfully apparent that the vast majority of our lovely politicians (i.e. both parties in the US) are singularly interested in controlling various demographics of people (ideologically etc.) in order to retain power and influence. Imo, the statement you made indicates some level of political/ideological naivete. Moving on...Logically, the fact that you were designing fighter planes for a living prior to my birth (how old are you?) has absolutely zero relevance to the topic at hand. Having said all of that, we need not get involved in some sort of hate-fest. I’m sorry if my comments were rude. However, you must concede that some of your comments were pissy and designed to evoke response. It seems as though you were looking for an argument. Take care and have a nice day. Back to Prometheus.
deftones1986
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 2:32 PMWell this post really went to shit.
I just wanted to provoke the thought about if there was no mystery in life, if we never ever ever asked questions. It would all come to a stand still.
But now everybody is talking about politics and this and that.
Fail on my part..........sorry :(
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteJul-19-2012 2:33 PMRSAND and joeyjoe - keep it clean, and refrain from insulting each other
xenodochy
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 3:55 PM@ deftones1986
Why did you fail? Why did this post go to … ? You “just wanted to post this piece to provoke” discussions around the movie being about the mysteries of life.
There will always be mystery in life as long as there is one person asking a question. Intellect can be measured by that. Would “it” all come to a standstill if we never asked questions? Is your “it” human inquisitiveness or development or reaching for the stars? If no one ever asked a question then everyone would be something other than human.
We’re programmed to ask questions, to rationalise, to give our elders the five-fingered salute and develop politics out of discontent – remember Plato? Recall his daisy chain of types of government? We have no clue where we’re going so we’re always lighting the fuse without thinking where or what the explosion will blast. That’s also what Prometheus is about: politics or the way we sort ourselves out for the next five minutes.
I think :)
Rubirosa
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 3:29 PMHey @deftones 1986, what's up buddy. I just wanted to add a few lines from one of my favorite author's stories. Take a chill pill guys.
“There is something at the bottom of every new human thought, every thought of genius, or even every earnest thought that springs up in any brain, which can never be communicated to others, even if one were to write volumes about it and were explaining one's idea for thirty-five years; there's something left which cannot be induced to emerge from your brain, and remains with you forever; and with it you will die, without communicating to anyone perhaps the most important of your ideas.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Idiot
deftones1986
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 3:33 PMYes!!!! Thank you Rubirosa. No sweat on the double post......maybe God wanted it that way. hahahaha
nysalor
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 7:24 PMDeftones
You may have done better by simply asking the question: pasting long dodgy mini-essays centred on minor cult leaders is not a very effective way of raising such issues. People a lot more competent and respected than Rand have looked at the issue in far more cogent ways.
At base though, your question doesn't scan for two reasons. Firstly, mystery and questioning are basic to intelligence, to conscious cognition. We wouldn't be human if we didn't ask questions. Nor would we be human if we didn't cling to the arbitrary answers we create through religion, mythology and philosophy.
Secondly, every movie asks questions, and a good percentage of them ask big questions, consciously and clearly, often with less clumsiness and banality than Prometheus.
Here, for example is a quote from Stanley Kubrick, who tackled in Space Odyssey the twin themes of machine/human/god and indifference of the universe while Scott was still making nappy ads.
"The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light."
We make our own light.
sukkal
MemberOvomorphJul-19-2012 8:42 PM@joeyjoe
I'm not uninformed on Ayn Rand, I just find Gore Vidal’s "summary" of her philosophy rather spot on.
AND:
~~~~ quoting from the link I previously posted ~~~~
...What Vidal could not have known in 1961 was that Ayn Rand’s ultimate lesson would be, [i]“Do as I say, not as I do.”[/i]
At the end of her life, suffering from lung cancer as a result of a two-pack-a-day nicotine addiction, Rand quietly renounced her philosophy of selfish self-reliance. According to the Oral History of Ayn Rand by Scott McConnell, founder of the media department at the Ayn Rand Institute, after the American capitalist medical system had wiped her out financially, she used her married name, Ann O’Connor, to [u]apply for and receive[/u] Social Security and Medicare.
Yes, in the end, when Ayn Rand found herself in the unfortunate position of those she’d built a philosophy, not to mention a career, castigating — when it was she who was elderly, broke and ill — she availed herself of the crown jewels of American socialism.
Vidal concluded his Esquire “Comment” with a warning that in retrospect seems to presage the rise of her cult at the core of the American empire. [i]“Ayn Rand’s ‘philosophy,’”[/i] he wrote, [i]“is nearly perfect in its immorality,[/i] which makes the size of her audience all the more ominous and symptomatic as we enter a curious new phase in our society. Moral values are in flux. The muddy depths are being stirred by new monsters and witches from the deep. Trolls walk the American night. Caesars are stirring in the Forum. There are storm warnings ahead.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
She was a human being, but not one I have very much admiration for. She only cared about others of her own ilk, and [u]that[/u] when it was convenient for her... She was happy to sit at the top of the pyramid, abhorring all of those whose backs were broken in the process of building it so that she could have a view from on high.
RSAND
MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 7:30 AMI became angry because I was personally attacked without ever having done so on this site at any time. I will never take that from anyone and was merely trying to make a point not provoke anyone into an argument.
It's very easy to attack someone while sitting behind a keyboard. It is insulting and stupid to castigate a poster for an opinion which is what my posts were.
I stand by my opinion of Ayn Rand and her mistreatment of those in need.
Can we please get back to Prometheus and off politics???
Rubirosa
MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 9:09 PMIm sorry @RSAND but sometimes a film like Prometheous will bring all types of questions to this site. The movie itself is about humanity. But we as humans sometimes want to add our own point of view. That point of view sometimes is embedded in politics, science or religion. We cannot escape that.
EddieTheBarsteward
MemberOvomorphDec-19-2012 6:27 AMBizarre - Deftones - or should that be Mouch writes a lie and bases his hate-speech diatribe on it, has he read any of Rand's work and posted ironically or is he just an example of all she railed against throughout her life?
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