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Major Noob
MemberOvomorphJul-16-2012 10:32 AM I posted my own long winded review ( Review: Beauty is in the eye ) this weekend and got some great replies. Sort of brought everything full circle for me. One thing someone said stuck with me: " I started to think something was wrong with me cos i liked Prometheus". How did this happen? I really am a major noob when it comes to forums, but I knew enough to anticipate the bile being slung here and elsewhere. My response up to this point has been: " It's a fekking movie! Get over it! "
I only saw it once, in 2D, with my stepfather ( this is Poignant, I saw Alien with my Father father) 4 weeks ago, and it has latched on to me like no movie ever has. It stuck with him, too. And my daughter, and her friends, who saw it relatively cold ( like Alien, I had totally spoiled Prometheus for myself before seeing it. Not so them. ) So the seemingly rote dismissal some have hung their egos on boggles me. This really fun creepy roller coaster that over time reveals layer after layer like God's own cinnamon bun has inspired a chorus of " Poppycock!" from the rarified wings! ( Not everybody, some people simply didn't get what they'd hoped for, and I can well imagine how that would suck. This is a different group; You know who you are, fashionably skeptical neo-beatniks. ) With the dust settling there seems to be but one glaring continuity issue that everyone agrees on, David's 36 hours line. And who knows if it's a blunder, an in joke, or otherwise deliberate?
When U2 released Vertigo there was a count-in in spanish, " uno, dos, tres, catorce " and everyone, EVERYONE who hates Bono seized on this: " Bono!What an idiot! It's QUATRO, dummy! " and then all the fringe people who believe being a smirky skeptic will elevate them blindly joined in. I'm not a big U2 fan but Bono is no idiot and even if he was, isn't he surrounded by people who aren't? This seemed to me more an indictment of the haters than Bono. In his case, at least, his massive blunder turned out to be deliberate, which should have surprised no one. These artists are a clever bunch, no?
I don't mind that Prometheus has polarized people, from my side I see that as part of its success. But what happened to giving yourself to something openly for the sheer fun of it? This is the very risk of love, the vulnerability one must embrace to have it whole ( Note: I said elsewhere that my wife is leaving me because of Prometheus. This was a joke, my wife rocks and, while not a sci fi fan, is amused and supportive of my recent excitement ).
I'm proud to say it, I loved this movie. I won't be able to see it again in a theatre ( maybe ) but I will own it and may even invest in a 3D tv to celebrate. Ridley will not be undone by this. Not for me, anyway. Rock on, lovers of Prometheus!
22 Replies
David 1
MemberOvomorphJul-16-2012 11:47 AMahahah, quoting:
When U2 released Vertigo there was a count-in in spanish, " uno, dos, tres, catorce "
when Metallica did their S&M album you could hear James Hetfield saying
"1, 2, testicles"
You made me remember that.
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphJul-16-2012 12:28 PMA lot of us expected an Alien movie, with answers to questions from the original, because as far as I and a lot of others saw, that's what was marketed to us. Your points are all fair and valid, but look at it this way:-
for about the last 30 years fans of the original have wanted to know how that original spaceship ended up crashed on the planetoid the Nostromo landed on. We wanted to know why that dead alien was sitting in his seat with a head sized hole in his chest.
30 years later, I saw a preview that had a very similar looking ship that appeared to be crashing for a movie called Prometheus that for all intents and purposes was being made to look like it would tell us how that ship ended up there.
We got screwed out of our answers, and then some.
It was a good movie, I myself have said that, but it was handled incorrectly in the marketing department. I personally would have preferred never having seen that ship crashing. Because now, if I am to believe what's going on, there are 2 of the exact same type of ship in the exact same plantary system but on different planets/moons/whatevers, Shaw leaves a message warning people away from the moon she was on, but it isn't the same ship and warning encountered by the crew in Alien?
How did they pick up the acoustic beacon from the Derelict but didn't pick up Shaw's transmission at all? Or will they twist THAT around so that it IS in fact the same signal?
I really do not understand why this movie was set in the Alien universe making such close parallels with the original, when it hasn't answered any of the questions the original movie raised. That could easily have been done and new questions raised to keep us guessing for another few years.
This isn't an Alien movie, I've accepted that, but I'm starting to feel like it's a blatant use of the Alien universe, just because they could.
[url=http://www.robocopmovie.net/][img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/NewRoboBanner.jpg[/img][/url]
"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
RickK
MemberOvomorphJul-16-2012 12:54 PMShame is it could easily have been an Alien prequel if you just make a few changes.. change the planet to LV426, have the SJ chestburst in his chair on the ship insead of the life boat...
Major Noob
MemberOvomorphJul-16-2012 1:36 PMCypher & RickK: You represent the percentage of the displeased that I understand, and I don't begrudge you your disappointment.
It's interesting how small details can influence ones perception! I saw the first teaser on accident, back in April, and as soon as I recovered I looked it up on Wikipedia, which had a very detailed write up on the production, including interviews with Ridley that made his intentions, to me, very clear. So from day one of my awareness of Prometheus I had an idea of what to expect, and was happy to embrace it, this being Ridley and all.
I too would have welcomed a straight up Alien prequel, though ultimately their thinking, that the Alien had been done over and over, seemed sound to me. In this case Alien is perhaps the exception to the phenomena of cultural saturation!
mandroid
MemberOvomorphJul-16-2012 2:25 PM@cypher
for about the last 30 years fans of the original have wanted to know how that original spaceship ended up crashed on the planetoid the Nostromo landed on. We wanted to know why that dead alien was sitting in his seat with a head sized hole in his chest.
Alien answered that, he was infected by a xeno embryo, put the ship down started the warning signal, what happened after that is anyone's guess ?? i.e. if that happened then what became of the xeno (if it was a xeno) but it is consistent with the reproductive cycle of the xeno as we know it with infection possibly taking place before he dons the bio mechanical flight suit and takes off in the derelict.
I wanted to know where the xeno came from, Prometheus alludes to that and possibly links the pile of dead engineers with the SJ from LV 426 as they appeared to have suffered the same fate and possibly around the same time, not sure where, but RS talks that the derelict on LV 426 was there for thousands of years, possibly millions and the facility on LV 223 had it's engineers wiped out 2000 years prior to Prometheus arriving.
Just another theory.
Major Noob
MemberOvomorphJul-16-2012 3:03 PMIt's possible that your questions may yet be answered. Here's a thought: maybe the being on LV426 is a separate entity, possibly one of the Makers Shaw has gone in search of? Sorry if
that's already been covered .
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphJul-16-2012 9:22 PMThat was what I was getting at mandroid, should have been a bit clearer but I wanted to know the events that led up to the guy ending up dead in his chair like that. That's what I shoulda said ;-) that and yes I would like to know where the alien came from, but that's not as important to me as knowing what happened for the Derelict to end up there
[url=http://www.robocopmovie.net/][img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/NewRoboBanner.jpg[/img][/url]
"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
mandroid
MemberOvomorphJul-17-2012 11:54 AM@Cypher
I think we are all waiting for the answer to the derelict question, RS is such a tease !
craigamore
MemberOvomorphJul-17-2012 12:13 PMI have noticed that many have been upset that they did not get answers concerning the original derelict; the why of it being there and such. I'm baffled by this frustration as I found that answer to be rather clear. It isn't spoken of or delivered directly as no one present would know of its fate. How could they? But the answer is found and readable between the lines if you paid attention. Given that the engineers had decided our fate, Shaw exclaims to David's severed head, forgive me for paraphrasing for a lack of clear memory, "that something must have stopped them, changed their minds." In that moment, it hit me, THEY NEVER DID CHANGE THEIR MINDS; especially when you consider the engineer's reaction to their presence. What I'm getting at is the notion that they DID SEND A SHIP TO WIPE OUT LIFE ON EARTH...and it never made it's full journey. An egg was disturbed, perhaps we'll never know, but once again, whatever the reason for that derelict setting down on LV-426, be it mechanical issues and an egg was then disturbed or the disturbing happened in flight, forcing it to set down - chicken first or the egg - it doesn't matter and is still left to our imagination. I liked that notion.
We have our answer, The ship sent to wipe us out never made it. We know that the pilot was infected, the how and when of it are not important. The fact that we can infer the mission that ship was on is what matters and it's our answer.
Indy John
MemberOvomorphJul-17-2012 12:21 PM"...The ship sent to wipe us out never made it.."
I like the thinking in this post because it is direct and to the point. An answer that fits the pieces we have seen..not only in Prometheus,,but forgive me..in Alien..too.
Was there any indication there was only one Space Jockey..aboard? For a mission that important there should have been additional insurance..Engineers...even armament shouldm have been included.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
RickK
MemberOvomorphJul-17-2012 2:33 PMOnly thing that bothers me with this theory is that apparently they bungled their mission to wipe us out twice. The first attempt didn't make it out of the star system and the second didn't even make it off the launching pad. Makes them seem less god like and more like an alien version of the marx brothers.
craigamore
MemberOvomorphJul-17-2012 2:55 PMTrue, but there's also this:
Look at it this way.....The engineers fall prey to their own creations; i.e. no one can hope to control these things; which is a theme carried over from [i]Alien[/i], the original film as well as the franchise as a whole - embodied not only by the fate of the original SpaceJockey with his exploded chest, but also in Ash's dieing speech, “a perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility…a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.”
Over and over again, these things prove themselves be something beyond anyone's control, even that of their creators, and in regard to [i]Prometheus[/i], it amplifies the original mythical invincibility in its "perfection" as described by Ash....a mythical perfection and supposed nigh invincibility many of us believe was lessened and negatively impacted by the way they were portrayed in the [i]Aliens[/i], [i]Alien 3[/i], and [i]Alien Ressurection[/i].
Indy John
MemberOvomorphJul-17-2012 3:07 PM"..unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality...”
This is embedded in Ash and we presume that David is also privy to this line of thought.
Now David has his 'structure' pretty well banged up...but his curiosity will cause him to make the world around him 'livable' (if that is a word an adroid would use)
This might be programmed in..but where diod this desire.come from?
Sounds like something Peter Weyland woudl subscibe to and and would use whatever resources and availible to achieve this.
Still reminds me a bit of Vickers..
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
.
MemberOvomorphAug-06-2012 11:45 AMI understand that Ridley wanted to set the stage as it were but in doing so left more questions than answers, which is fine as long as they make sense... but to create a sense of mystery artificially by using this technique is very upsetting for most movie goers. Major Noob thanks for posting this thread, this topic always generates a lively dialogue.
BigDave
MemberDeaconAug-06-2012 3:30 PMFinally....
Ridley never said that the Derelict on LV 426 was heading to Earth, he has in past said it was a Bio Weapon Cargo and the Ship was a bomber and the race was at War.
I am not so sure that War was with us, Ridley also hinted that the Derelict in Alien set off on its mission 200 years prior to the downfall of LV 223 some 2000 years ago.
I still subscribe to the idea that the Urns was a alternative way of storing the Xeno Bio Weapon and that they come to a point when they decided that breaking down the Xeno DNA and storing it in the Urns was a easier and safer way to Store and Maintain a Bio Weapon that has more applications than the Xeno Eggs.
I believe the process they used to do this was the same as what the Sacrificial Engineer had done in Prometheus.
If you imagine my theory would be what if that Engineer had his broken down DNA caught and placed into a container instead of it dissolve into the Water.
In theory the contents of this container could then be used to create life on other worlds that would have similar traits and DNA to the Engineer.
So why could they not use same substance to break down Xeno DNA and store the resulting matter in a Urn?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
MemberDeaconAug-06-2012 3:21 PM@mandroid
the biggest clue is not what Prometheus showed but what it did not.
The unused props and special effects the concept artwork.
The early concept work for the sarcophagus show when opened up something similar to the Alien Space Jockey, it showed that the Engineers wear the Space Jockey Suit in Cryo Stasis, also these concept works show these Space Jockeys in the Sarcophagus have a hole in their chest with the rip cage bent outwards just as in Alien.
This was replaced with the idea that the Engineers just wear their pressure suits and a mask similar to Bane in Batman Dark Knight Rises. And the other sarcophagus have holes at chest height in the glass to them.
Take a look here half way through these images.
[url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/gallery/view/5&page=2]Concept Work[/url]
When you see that concept idea, its easier then to link that yes what got to the Engineers on LV 223 was similar if not the same Xeno that was on LV 426.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
MemberDeaconAug-06-2012 2:55 PMRidley has hinted that after his Prometheus franchise has completed we would have our answers to that Mystery and the Xeno.
Ridley said he did not want to meet the main creators in Prometheus and that Prometheus 2 would have less to do with Xenos and Lv 426 than Prometheus.
He also said that it may need two sequels, this tells me Prometheus 2 we will find out more in detail of who the Engineers are and how they came to be and what purpose they have.
I think that Prometheus 3 would then tie up the lose ends and tie Prometheus and Prometheus 2 too the Alien Franchise.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
MemberDeaconAug-06-2012 3:06 PM@Cypher
Ridley has covered the subject.
Regarding the Xeno he has not explained or covered how they was created or how the Engineers came across them, only that there is some connection and that it is because of the Engineers that we have the Xenos on LV 426.
But we do not know if they created them or found them, all we know is they saw them as a Bio Weapon and that the stuff in the Urns are connected to the Xeno as far as DNA goes.
As far as LV 426 goes Ridley has explained it, but only just as he hinted that the Space Jockey was a Pilot in a Space Suit which came to see in Prometheus.
Ridley had stated that the Derelict in Alien was carrying a Cargo of Eggs to a unspecified location and that the Derelict did not travel too far until one of the Cargo had become compromised and got to the Pilot. The pilot then had to make a unscheduled emergency landing on LV 426 and then also set off a warning beacon to warn his fellow Engineers that the Cargo had become compromised and warned them of the location of the now crash landed ship and its deadly cargo.
So all we know from that is that the Eggs was on the ship and thus not laid by anything, and also that the Engineer was not infected at the time that he set off on his mission to take the Cargo somewhere.
It would had been nice to have some kind of visual of that in Prometheus, but i think Ridley did not so he can toy with us. Thats why he claimed the movie was the Progenitor to Alien and where Mommy meets Daddy.
One has to be a Red Herring right.... is that Prometheus or the events of it are the Progenitor or that the Derelict had been crashed for thousands of years one is a Red Herring.
He has not been clear because he and Lindelof decided to make the movie a bit ambiguous so as that we can all interpret the clues in different ways.
The Spaits Draft was more straight forwards in its explanation, and pretty much what some expected from this movie, minus Face Huggers.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Major Noob
MemberOvomorphAug-09-2012 2:23 PM Could it be that the Engineers are humans ( not from Earth ) forcibly evolved by the space jockeys via the black goo? let these guys manage our Bio Division so we can go on being inscrutable and elite. And safe. Look after our outposts, we have viler things to do.
Maybe the thing on LV426 was on its way to LV223 with a batch of materials. Maybe their messing about destroyed everything. They made or discovered something beyond themselves, much like Oppenheimer. The Engineers get full of themselves and start playing God, but it gets away from them. The Xeno could have been an accident. A holocaust unfolds across maybe many planets. Maybe we're all thats left in the universe with any potential for perpetuating the disaster.
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