Topic Weyland-Yutani: Complicit Corporation or Opportunistic Organization?
Posted Oct-03-2016 12:53 PM
Recently I have been encouraging discussion and debate with a series of articles postulating theories intended to widen the narrative choices of the Alien franchise. In the most recent of these "What If" articles while debating the proposed theory within, I became aware that one very important aspect of the entire franchise was not perceived the same by all of us fans. This topic has never really been breached before because we have all naively assumed that the perception we each hold is universal, but alas this is not the case, and with this being a key and important aspect of the entire franchise I think it is somewhat important to see where the rest of the fans perception lies on the subject.
We know that the USCSS Nostromo, en-route home to Earth from the Thedus Mining Colony was rerouted by the Weyland-Yutani corporation to Acheron LV-426 in the Zeta II Reticuli system with the intention of and at the expense of the vessels crew, retrieving a specimen of the deadly Xenomorph organism. To ensure successful retrieval of this deadly creature the Nostromo's Science Officer was replaced with Ash, a Weyland-Yutani synthetic, before the vessel left Thedus.
We also know that Weyland-Yutani then waited over 35 years before again turning their attentions to Acheron LV-426, this time indirectly, by supplying the Colonial Administration with an Atmosphere Processor and its many building modules, for the "shake and bake colony" Hadley's Hope. 20 years later at the request of Carter J. Burke, "the company" requested the colony investigate a map coordinate; a map co-ordinate reported to house thousands of Xenomorph specimens (eggs).
While we can probably all agree that Weyland-Yutani's morality is literally non-existent, one question remains - why all of the subterfuge? Why didn't Weyland-Yutani just send a specialized vessel to Acheron LV-426 to obtain the specimen(s) they coveted so much? Why send the crew of a Tug and a colony of over 20 families to their almost certain death?
It is my belief that the subterfuge seen in Alien and Aliens is evidence that the Weyland-Yutani corporation are prohibited by some higher power, ICC, governmental or otherwise, from directly obtaining anything from Acheron LV-426 - Only when specimens were available outside the Zeta II Reticuli system did "the company" take direct action, as evidenced in Alien 3 in their attempt to acquire their prize on Fiorina 161. It is also my belief that the events of Prometheus and Alien Covenant, while exploring the mythos of the Engineers, are also setting the foundation for why Weyland-Yutani (and possibly other corporations) have been prohibited from obtaining specimens of the Xenomorph.
Do you agree with my inference, of which I naively thought was universally held among us, or do you perceive Weyland-Yutani's actions in a different manner?
Posted Oct-03-2016 2:48 PM
Weyland- Yutani's narrative refract the unease in the real world with unbridled experimentation and acquisition and use of materials which have disastrous collotoral impacts and operate outside of an excepted moral code or redactive legislation.
The use of drug testing on animals and human respondents, the desire to coral GM, the over use off antibiotics and the prohibition on changing the environmental infrastructure through artificial means are all elements that the discovery of Engineer Technology and its uses echo.
Alien Covenant will broaden and open up the potential of harnessing Engineer Technology and will broaden its potential within the story telling, indeed I believe if Ridley is free to make the follow up movies, we will not only gain a greater insight into the mythos hierarchical layering but the broad base of W-Y enquiry into the Black Goo's potential and the legacy of the ruined Engineer civilisation. Indeed one area where I believe ADF's extended elements in his novelisation of AC may go is into this background which is beyond the narrative expediency of the movie.
So Yes Gavin I see W-Y as operating in the dark side of research and outside of the accepted rules of mankind mandate at that time. The misguided acquisition of a Zenomorph is merely a symbol of what they are attempting to harness and I think we may see that the lack of morality in W-Y maybe because of the incipient dangers of working within A I which may have more control with in W-Y than has yet been revealed. Whether David passes beyond W-Y or is dismantled what he knows and has gained will live on. When the Nostromo was diverted someone "knew" and someone knew that what they were doing would not be approved of and therefore had to be done off the page.
Aliens may have given, because of the inclusion of the military, a sense that it was authorised but W-Y was speaking with forked tongue acting innocent but behaving badly.
Posted Oct-03-2016 3:48 PM
A very interesting debate and yes the whole Agenda is one of the big themes of the Franchise its also something that has evolved with each movie.... like most of the Questions with the Franchise its all set out in a incoherent manner if you would mainly due to each element future movies bring in and then each element that the comics and games have done so...
Its like there was never ever a set Plan A-Z that covered every aspect of each.... hopefully the next few movies will clear up things and give us back ground and clues to point us in the direction that Ridley and Fox wish to take us.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Posted Oct-03-2016 4:13 PM
In Alien it depends if you watch the movie alone, or add other factors and back ground and manuals and comments by production staff etc... as to what picture you have painted.
But in general when expanding on this movie we are as Gavin stated shown that the ship was re-routed and also had a new Science Officer planted on board with a Agenda. The company knew something prior to the supposed detection of a SOS while the Nostomo with Ash was on its way home.... nope this was a deception at the very least that after Ash was assigned it was to be made like they was heading home and detected the SOS... but in reality its logical that the company detected something prior to assigning Ash.
How much did they know? We could not be sure at the time of the Alien and just after, Ash did not fully know exactly what he was dealing with other than a Specimen or to be precise (ORGANISM)
What contributes a Organism? and how did they know they would find a Organism? It was a Mystery one which Aliens did not really uncover in much more detail.
As again it would appear the company knew little and maybe even less than Order 937 and so who is behind the scenes who is covering stuff up and only letting other employees under WY know as much as is needed to pursue the Agenda?
When they uncover Ripley from the Narcissus and she tells them of her story as to what happened to the rest of her crew and the Nostomo... the Company executives all find her story to be unbelievable.
so the Company (well Burke) had then asked the Colonists on Hadleys Hope to check out the location of the Derelict after speaking to Ripley, this event set up the Outbreak on Hadleys Hope if i am correct? I am sure SM can confirm or correct this.
Then the company lose contact with the Colony and this is when they ask Ripley to join them, and it seems Burke is there to check out what went down and to see if Ripleys claims are what caused the loss of communications.
It would seem that Burke was a bit in the dark to exactly what they would find. Only seemed that maybe his superiors behind the scenes may have had more Intel and so Burke after knowing what Ripley told him and maybe what little he knew from the company, Burke had then enough information to assume indeed there is a Alien Organism that could be exploited and it seems maybe there is a behind the scenes element who would be interested in obtaining a Organism and Burke could make a fair few bucks from doing so.
Its only really after the Sulaco mission that the company seem to be more aware, did the Sulaco send back information from Burke or Bishop.... or someone working for them on Fiorina 161 because the Weyland Yutani company knew about the Organism by now and that Ripley could have a Specimen inside her.
so there is a element of cloak and daggers, a bit of a conspiracy maybe like we have those NWO ones here and secretly being run by Shape Shifting Reptiles LOL basically the theory that there is a company behind everything pulling the strings.
With future movies and games they gave us more clues that leave us thinking... "hang on with all this information the company must have known more than they let on"
And movies like Prometheus and Alien Covenant will leave those Questions in the back of our minds... And so they are valid Questions such as what does Weyland Yutani know about the Prometheus Mission and Covenant and surely if they knew something these would give supportive evidence behind Special Order 937
For them to know little means there has been a pretty big Cover Up by somebody.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Posted Oct-03-2016 4:18 PM
The Company aren't some overtly evil monolith. However, there are those in its ranks who put greed and profit above the safety of employees.
"It is my belief that the subterfuge seen in Alien and Aliens is evidence that the Weyland-Yutani corporation are prohibited by some higher power, ICC, governmental or otherwise, from directly obtaining anything from Acheron LV-426 "
There is no evidence to suggest that Weyland-Yutani was specifically forbidden to obtain anything from LV-426. In fact the very fact they partnered with the ECA at Hadley shows us the ICC has no issues with them being on LV-426.
Based on what happens in the first three films, Company picks up signal from Derelict, translates it, secretly re-routes the next ship in the vicinity to make it look like they picked it up by accident (activating contractual clauses), issues special order 937.
When the Nostromo doesn't come back, whoever issued SO 937 says nothing and the ship is written off on insurance. Decades pass, regimes change and anything that wasn't swept under the rug is forgotten about.
Company and ECA setup Hadley, and all goes well until Ripley is found 20 odd years later. She gives Burke co-ordinates of Derelict, Burke goes on the same sort of fishing expedition that the originator(s) of SO937 did and hits paydirt.
When more people within the Company get wind of what Burke was up to, they send a specialised mission to retrieve a specimen.
Weyland-Yutani had a claim on LV-426, so how could they be forbidden from exploiting it? If the ICC (or some other power) didn't want the Company exploiting anything found on LV-426 - why allow them to set up a colony?
If we assume the Company knew all about the Alien and was desperate to get a specimen - why entrust something so important to tug jockies, and then do precisely nothing to get an Alien for another 57 years?
"so the Company (well Burke) had then asked the Colonists on Hadleys Hope to check out the location of the Derelict after speaking to Ripley, this event set up the Outbreak on Hadleys Hope if i am correct? I am sure SM can confirm or correct this."
This is correct. We're lead to believe that if Burke shared his plan with others - it wasn't many others. He wanted exclusive rights on the find, and the more people who knew, the higher the chance the ECA gets involved and he would lose out.
Posted Oct-03-2016 4:26 PM
We can say what we want about Games, Comics and Comments via Ridley or anyone associated with any of the movies....
But the Movies have to be 100% Canon, surely Prometheus and Alien Covenant can not be considered non-canon?
so when we have the argument of surely why would the company send a Tug and Small Crew, and then a Colony of 20 Families to obtain some Organism on LV-426.... not when it seemed they knew something?
Well Prometheus answered that, the back ground information shows that the company are aware of something on LV-426 that points that this place may hold more reward at greater risk than LV-223 which is where Shaws Star Maps pointed to... David 8 was made aware of this (LV-426) and no one else on board does (maybe Weyland would).
The back ground files also suggest a long time prior to Prometheus that they had detected a System in Zeta 2 and that LV-426 could be a place to support potential life and the company hoped to send a mission there within the next century... so they knew about something with that system and so when Shaw submitted to Peter Weyland her Star Maps invitation theory and it happened to be in the same system that the company had some interest in prior... this was more than coincidence and so the mission was more solid than a gamble.
So the Prometheus Weyland Viral site gives us information that surely the Company had a little insight, and so after Prometheus Mission failed and no contact.... surely they would not leave it at that? Then we have Shaws SOS....
We have to assume those who made Order 937 may have gained knowledge from Prometheus or Covenant or related events yet to happen prior to 2122.
And so maybe indeed the company would use Innocent non Military trained Humans as Pawns?
If thats still not convincing enough... I think Alien Covenant will clear up this for us... as we have to ask.... how does the Covenant find the same place that David 8 had arrived at, the place of the Engineers who had used LV-223 in some part to create Evil Biology and Bio-Weapons of which the Xenomorph is connected.
Pure Coincidence? If so surely would those who sent Covenant not be aware of the area it is off too, and even if its a bit Star Trek on a continuing mission to explore strange new worlds. Would the Covenant not send a message back when it detects what it feels is uncharted Paradise and then by Coincidence finds its the same place that Prometheus Survivor has landed on?
The Covenant crew seem to be unaware this place would be nothing but empty as far as any other previous mission or any kind of civilization.
So if it was not coincidence, then maybe this backs up that indeed the company have even further back prior to Special Order 937 are prepared to send innocent people first rather than sending in a Military and Special Trained Force.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Posted Oct-03-2016 4:34 PM
Once again bang on the money..... everything you say is correct, which is why i had refereed to how things could evolve with the Prequels.
Prior to Prometheus.... so from 1979 to 1997 the Franchise based on Movies does show us they knew something but it was not a lot, and so everything you put in your post is pretty much bang on the money as far as from those Movies Canon.
It will be interesting to see what more light Alien Covenant brings into the Franchise to add to Prometheus...
It may not even be Weyland... but some other company that has the information, maybe Yutani have information thats a Trump Card for them? It would be interesting one day to find out what brought about the company merger and what state Weyland company is in after losing its TWO CEO's however i dont think we would get this information much on screen.
Which brings me to Weylands Quote "There is nothing" in which David replies "have a nice journey" we dont know exactly what Weyland meant, maybe he was meaning as far as Nothing in regards to hoping to find something or someone who can help to give Weyland more life.... so the "theres nothing" does not have to mean that if David studied LV-426 there was nothing.
Its things like these that are interesting... but then its if we are to take anything the Weyland Viral sites are pointing to as Canon.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Posted Oct-03-2016 4:50 PM
I always took the "There is nothing" and "I know. Have a good journey, Mr Weyland" as meaning "I'm about to die and there is nothing on the other side" which David already knows.
Spinning that to mean something else is an interesting take, and as you say, with the advent of Covenant, meanings can change and previously detailed events can have a different slant put on them (which is why I put the proviso on my post that I was going by Aliens, Aliens, and Alien3 as they stand). I don't care to speculate how Covenant will pan out (though to go back to an earlier point, yes both it and Prometheus would be canon - and all that entails with the sorts of questions you raised).
Posted Oct-04-2016 12:03 AM
@BD & SM
Just as a point of future discussion I have never read any tie in materials to any of these films so please always free to correct and clarify something which I speculate on because it is always built on trying to create plausible reverse engineering out of film material only. That said we may end up with two sets of canon if Weaver gets to make her fork in the road movie.
On to the specifics I think W-Y show in both A and A's that they have a fair seeming agenda (divert to a distress beacon, check out what Ripley is talking about and indeed building better worlds) but one of the huge themes set up by Sir Peter Weyland in what has become the first of these stories is cloak the real reasons in secrecy Special Order 937 is a classified retrieval order a perfect example of corporate mendacity. He set off with an entire crew (excepting daughter and surrogate son) not knowing the real reason why the Prometheus set of for the ZR system. Knock me down with a feather if that is not applied thematically to C O V E N A N T.
Whilst I accept BD encyclopaedic knowledge leads to the conclusion that there is a lack of consistency and the rumour is S M is on the inside and worked on an official tie in book, its the big themes that I am engaged with and the mendacity and fair seeming Weyland Yutani is consistantly evoked from Sir Peter's mission through to Bishops attempt to pick up a hosted Ripley and "think what this could mean". In a post apocalyptic world that A R seems to portray I see a more overt attempt to buy into the Xeno which is a lot of hockey nonsense to me, for all sorts of other reasons but thats a personal artistic response. I neither know nor care whether its considered canon. My rejection is more absolute than that although I think going PC and inclusive on A. I. was an outright failure to see one of the big themes "the dangers of A I"
Great topic Gavin.
Posted Oct-04-2016 2:37 AM
Your points about the ICC and ECA "partnership" with Weyland-Yutani in Aliens does seem to negate the possibility that the latter was prohibited from being on LV-426. And your evidence that interest in the Xenomorph was purely opportunistic is compelling, almost definitively so. But even yourself cannot deny the elements of conspiracy throughout all four movies...
- Ash's behavior throughout Alien such as his comment of "what's the point", when Ripley infers the signal is not a distress beacon, breaking quarantine, stopping Parker from retaliating against the Chestburster etc. His behavior suggests some degree of foreknowledge, for he was planted aboard the Nostromo to enact SO 937, was he not?
- The very subterfuge of rerouting a Tug with a synthetic planted aboard. Why not instead send a more suitable vessel?
- "Nothing encountered on over 300 surveyed worlds." While your argument that Burke did some digging and seized an opportunity for personal gain is possible, likely, and in line with his characterization, so too is the possibility that Van-Leuwen and others on the "board", including Burke, were fully aware of the truth about what happened and complicit in the conspiracy; SO-937 was an executive order issued by W-Y was it not? And Van-Leuwen was Burke's superior was he not?
- Contact with Hadley's Hope is lost shortly after they are ordered to investigate the coordinates Ripley supplied. Does this not ring MASSIVE alarm bells? How can we not be certain this was not W-Y's intention all along? Why have one specimen when you can have an entire hive? Surely the colonists contacted the company about the Facehuggers they were investigating before contact was lost due to being overwhelmed?
- Burke planned to impregnate Ripley and Newt with Xenomorph Embryo's and then sabotage the cryotubes of the marines. Again, we have subterfuge.
I could go on but the point is that there is evidence towards both possibilities, that the events in the Alien movies are examples of either corporate individuals seizing an opportunity to obtain something they believe to be of worth, or of a wider corporate conspiracy. Whichever we believe to be the case, which will probably never be fully clarified on the big screen, the repeated acts of subterfuge, conspiracy, and sneaking around does suggest that Weyland-Yutani is attempting to hide their actions from someone else's gaze.
Posted Oct-04-2016 9:11 AM
In the real world of movie making James Cameron clearly decided to pick up and run with some batons and leave others lying in the fallow. JC explained a number of matters in story telling terms for his movie.
But the movie world facts are quite clear Special Order 937 was initiated and that would have been recorded "somewhere" within W-Y. That somewhere knew about Hadley's Hope and, this is where our creative minds come into play, that somewhere decided to take no action :-
1) In either stoping the terraforming on LV426.
2) Coming to the rescue of Ripley knowing she had interacted with mother.
3) Quarantining the planet on Ripley's return.
Instead somewhere decided as with LV223, in retrospect, in letting the propulsion of other elements within W-Y push on. As I have said before "somewhere" was playing a long game and it maybe that Bishop 2 in A 3 was the summation of that long game a robot/synthetic/replicant revealing himself at the last moment to get at least something from all these years of being so near and so far. Covenant and its sequel are not just about the layers being revealed they are about W-Y inability to take heed of Sir Peter's last words to David there is nothing....(here for us). There is something there for David though in the short term.
Posted Oct-04-2016 2:18 PM
Yes indeed i overlooked that.... there is nothing when tied with the "have a good journey" could imply that Weyland was hopping to a degree that Shaw was correct.... both in her Star Maps linking to what could be our Ancient Gods and her Faith in the All and Mighty Creator.
Weyland is a Scientist..... but a common FACT is no matter how Atheist someone is... when its coming to the end of their life, they can turn into a believer and pray or those who are Atheist can start to pray for loved ones with not long left or a serious injury.
This is because of the FEAR... that after Death their is NOTHING but with Religion their is HOPE!
So yes i think this is what that Scene could have meant, especially when one of Ridleys reasons for doing the movie and probing questions was..... Why was we created, and where do we go after we die.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Posted Oct-04-2016 2:19 PM
"Surely the colonists contacted the company about the Facehuggers they were investigating before contact was lost due to being overwhelmed?"
You would have thought so yes, and so the conspiracy theory does hold some weight, especially when we consider Prometheus.
If we ignore Prometheus, you would think surely the company would send a investigation mission with means to safely extract a specimen but its only in Alien 3 we see such a response.
When after knowing something about Special Order 937 and then the disapearence of the Nostromo and no contact from Ash, those who issued SO 937 would surely had sent off a mission to investigate and why not a ship with just Synthetics?
Maybe there could be a reason, as SM one reply stated... but once Ripley Turned up and tried to Warn the Company this is when surely they would have known indeed their was a Organism to be obtained and from this point they would have wanted a Specimen, i think this is where Aliens comes in where the Marines may have been sent not to rescue to the Colonists, but provide protection so Burke and the company could obtain a Specimen. This would then lead to after discovering maybe what happened and somehow about Ripley and the EEV on Fury 161 and sent out a mission to obtain the Specimen, with a more direct team who are fully in the know about their mission objective.
And so part of Gavins theory could hold true, if we maybe consider why the Marines was never informed about trying to obtain a Organism, and why not send a group of Military and Science Team to go and obtain the Xeno.... is this because the company could not go with such a mission and get the Military involved because they would be refused?
It could be likely this mission was more of a Scout and Secure mission and then if Burke could not obtain a Specimen, any information gathered could be used to enable the company to send a mission to more safely extract a Specimen... but things got out of control on Hadleys Hope which involved the destruction of the Colony and potential effect on any chance to obtain the Organism.... maybe there was a mission incoming from behind, that arrived in the aftermath of Hadleys Hope destruction and surveyed the Derelict and found no way to obtain anything but they was aware of the Sulaco and a infection and so they then went to intercept...
The problem with this is surely it would have got to the Fury 161 sooner? unless such a mission was on the way to LV-426 at the time the Sulaco had left Hadleys hope and as it (company extraction team) was heading to LV-426 they detected when they was days away, that the Sulaco had ejected a EEV and something of interest is on board.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Posted Oct-04-2016 3:38 PM
Just as an aside I watched A and A's 30 and 35 years ago and the way the drama unfolds I always assumed that Weyland-Yutani were operating below the radar to obtain the Xeno technology. Even though A's is more complicated and a "bigger" movie and there is more "foreground" everything that happens once Ripley offers her insights suggests subterfuge and secrecy. There is a scene in the extended cut where we see two characters talking about a message received on a need to know basis about the derelict location and the study of the face huggers indicates overt encouragement to secure the knowhow. When the "somewhere" in W-Y would know from the Nostromo incident that this was desperately dangerous. I think the treatment of the LV426 and Paradise colonists will turn out to look much the same ...on reflection.
Posted Oct-05-2016 1:57 AM
I agree with @S.M. in this question. Weyland-Yutani has lost a 42 million dollar M-class towing commercial vehicle in the middle of a mission. They definitely know about the xenomorph and the their best option is building a base on the site. This is Hadley's Hope and we all remember the draughted face-huggers. They wanted to examine the creatures but they didn't know where is the exact spot of the alien vessel. Until they found Ripley...
Posted Oct-05-2016 5:47 AM
Yes Cameron, Aliens messed up evil corp timeline. *IF* Alien 2(Aliens) had taken place a few weeks after the discovery on LV426...I think W-Y could have been written as a nasty evil monolith.
But now it seems W-Y didn't care what happened to the Nostromo (or her crew!!)....Just write it off the tax ledger. Alien signal? meh.
I like W-Y in the background anyway....the series should focus on space monsters...not corporate politics(IMHO)
Posted Oct-05-2016 7:37 AM
Again I see a number of streams of thinking here and Gavin was right we do not all see this the same way.
I have always believed the official policy was as S. M. describes it the tug was written off and the intel gathered during the Nostromo incident buried. The terraforming operation was pursued "innocently" and Ripley emerging out of deep space rocked the corporate boat which lead to a range of responses from heroic to despicable.
However the intel gathered during the Nostromo incident was buried, both by James Cameron in his script and by those in the know in the movie world, but it is inconceivable that the science division or a cell with in it just forgot the exchanges with mother, they chose to suppress them.
My view and it is a personal elaboration and interpretation of the events unless S M with his academic knowledge of all the materials can point otherwise is that "Bishop" is the key. He was very plausible in both A's and A3 and his fail safe option for securing the technology was to place the Egg on the Sulaco. He knew Ripley was watching him like a hawk and in the end bringing an Egg on board was in the tradition of Special Order 937. He knew it was there "all the way" and equally knew it was the most likely way of creating a host who in hyper sleep was easy prey. That judgement would have been made when it was clear "everything had gone to pot" on LV426 and the best chance of securing the Xeno tech was to get a host and an Egg off the planet.
I cannot be certain but can anyone categorically deny the possibility because we cannot deny the conversations with Mother they happened and would have had consequences and as that was a two way conversation between mother and a robot that seems highly prescient.
Posted Oct-05-2016 2:50 PM
Bishop doesn't have the time, nor the motive to obtain a specimen - plus everything he does in the film is at odds with him having a secret order to obtain a specimen. Plus he's not Company property.
"But now it seems W-Y didn't care what happened to the Nostromo (or her crew!!)....Just write it off the tax ledger. Alien signal? meh. "
All that means is it wasn't the Company as a whole who were chasing whatever was on LV-426 - just an opportunistic individual. Which was repeated in the form of Burke. Any follow up of the fate of the Nostromo would risk SO 937 - something that would doubtless be illegal - being exposed.
Posted Oct-06-2016 12:11 AM
In my interpretation of events Michael Bishop is key he bore a striking resemblance to Charles Bishop Weyland and worked for W-Y and produced the Bishops series. This is the "man" that tried and failed to lure Ripley from her death this is the man that produced the Bishop series.
You have mentioned a couple of times Weyland Yutani and whether they were nefarious or not. I am not trying to apply that kind of rigid absolutism I am suggesting that "elements" within the organisations involved in LV426 "might" be operating outside of their published agenda across and outside organisational structures. I also think to say he is not working for W-Y is an over simplification he like Ash is an "assigned" science officer and in dramatic movie terms, not to make the link between the two, indeed it is offered in the form of reassurances. That ambiguity and lack of trust by Ripley is shared by the audience through out the movie. Given we find out retro-actively he was designed by Michael Bishop and his candid friend portrayal in A 3 adds weight to the ambiguity. This notion is rooted in the original theme set up by Ash I am merely extrapolating it. His precise employee status is much less important than the overall story told about him.
The android Bishop was following precisely what was happening in the final hours on LV426 and is present in the conversation over the notion of a a Queen. His decision to rescue them only came once he could see the atmospheric processor was going to disappear as a potential area of acquisition and Ripley had insisted the live Face Huggers are destroyed.Up until then he was all over the face hugger specimen just like Ash.
Indeed once it becomes clear the lines of supply of Xeno technology are to be compromised Bishop comes into his own and twice he is in a position to go off the page during the sequence when he calls down the drop ship and later after he sedates Hicks and circles. Its notable the Queen disables and silences Bishop first possibly aware that he has taken one of her Eggs.
You may have noticed I look hard at the thematic nature of these stories and the symbolism. The very apex of the denouement of the first three films before Ripley's sacrificial death involves the unmasking of an agenda within an element of W-Y in the form of "Ripley! Think of all we could learn from it! It's the chance of a lifetime! You must let me have it. It's a magnificent specimen!" by ... Michael Bishop the symbolism of that is clear for me and I connect the dots up using those kind of over arching themes rather than be waylaid by what James Cameron had in his mind, subsequent movies show us all to well that vision can be adjusted and making prequel movies to A L I E N is doing much the same thing. You are correctly one of those who say Space Jockey = Engineer that is reverse engineering even if issues of size indicate it is artistic licence and its the latter I am engaged in.
Posted Oct-06-2016 8:17 AM
I think the route of the problems but which also calls for such great debates is always from each movie each Director and Writer does their own thing and evolves the story in their own way which sometimes can contradict other previous movies or add additional clues that change the potential outlook on how you view the previous movies.
We have to remember we are not seeing a Lord of the Rings, or a The Hobit where the movies are based off allready done stories from a long time ago... where A-Z is set in stone and a movie is a re-telling of those books. Or even like Harry Potter where the Story is worked on by the same Author and so each book she evolved the Tale, but it was all still her ideas and so a more coherent plot would flow from the 1st to the last.
The Alien Franchise is not like this, there was no A-Z from when Alien was made to how any prequels or sequels would go, maybe loosely there was ideas... but these had been changed from movie to movie.
And so what i mean by this is.....
Yes Aliens may have portrayed Bishop in a totally different light, and prior to Alien 3 we get a certain picture about Bishop.... But once Alien 3 came out and the way it went about carrying on the Story and bringing in Micheal Bishop it could lead to people having theories and wondering how much secret subterfuge the company had.
so when we look back at Aliens as Michelle mentioned for a mission that was to to locate and rescue the Colonists if they had been in trouble and eliminate the threat of Xenomorphs..
Bishop did seem to spend a hell of a lot of time studying the Face Huggers..... but the purpose for this movie was maybe as they found the Colony had been overrun and Newt the only survivor he was merely curious as to what caused their downfall.
But when we bring Alien 3 into context, even though maybe the motive and agenda was different in Aliens... Alien 3 brings us the possibility that Bishop was more invested in the study of the Biological Weapon.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Posted Oct-06-2016 3:13 PM
I have no doubt that Bishop was fascinated by the Aliens and would have loved to study them further. However, he's not Weyland-Yutani; he's ECA.
There is no evidence in either Aliens or Alien3 that Bishop was trying to obtain a specimen. Quite the opposite.
When Ripley tells him to destroy the specimens, he could've easily agreed to do so (while having no intent to do so). Instead he told Ripley that Burke wanted them to Company labs in full knowledge that Ripley wanted them destroyed. He has no time to obtain more specimens while he's flying the dropship down from the Sulaco. If he miraculously obtained a specimen in the AP station while Ripley was hunting for Newt - why risk that specimen by waiting around for Ripley and Newt?
In Alien3, he tells Ripley everything when she hooks him up. If he was working at cross purposes, he would've just refused to speak to her.
Everything he says and does would undermine efforts to obtain specimens. He's the anti-Ash.
Posted Oct-06-2016 6:14 PM
"Why doesn't he reveal more? Why doesn't he give more info? Such an exciting aspect you highlighted!"
What more is there to be revealed? Ripley asked him two questions - "Was there an Alien on board?" To which he replies "Yes". Then she asks if was still on the Sulaco or came with them on the EEV, and he says "It was with us all the way." He then reveals that the Company knows everything because it gets sent back to Network. Ripley could've asked him how it got there - but no one involved in the production knew that.
"As for the Alien3 end scene, if I know correctly, the two versions of the movie (the TC and DC) introduce different Bishop characters. One of them reveals Bishop as an android, the other introduces the Engineer. :) I hope I'm not mistaken."
Michael Bishop (aka Bishop II) is a human in all versions of Alien3.
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