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Topic What if the LV-426 Xenomorphs from Aliens are a different strain of Alien and the Queen is a mutation?

What if the LV-426 Xenomorphs from Aliens are a different strain of Alien and the Queen is a mutation?

Chris

Admin

1408

Posted Jun-09-2016 5:18 PM

I've been thinking about how and why James Cameron's altered design Xenomorphs and Queen introduction could work with the new found understanding of the Xeno's  biology thanks to Prometheus and soon to be, Alien: Covenant. My theory is such:

The Alien Queen is a genetic mutation adopted by having chest bursted from a female human host. The Xeno's original purpose and method for reproduction was egg-morphing and transforming hosts into Xeno-like creatures. Albeit a more "primitive" and time-consuming form of reproduction. The Queen is a strand of "upgraded DNA", a next level in the evolution of the Xenomorph biology when introduced to a wider range of hosts.

We never see the Queen's birth in Aliens and the first host to have been impregnated was Newt's father. A male, he would've given birth to an Alien similar to that of Kane's son. This leads me to believe that at some point a female is exposed to a Facehugger and gives birth to the first Queen. Whether by accident or intent, as we know the local scientists at Hadley's Hope were running tests on captured Aliens. 

The Alien Queen, having reached full maturity begins to develop her own egg sack and produce eggs with genetically mutated Facehuggers. These Facehuggers produce the rigged domes Xenomorphs we witness in the film, but they lack the same level of intelligence of the more "pure breed" Xeno's (Kane's Son). Think quantity over quality, so to speak.

Upon birthing enough rigged Warriors, they would've likely terminated any Xeno's which were not born of the Queen - to keep the lineage pure and reduce competition for hosts. Instead of the rigged domes being merely older, weathered versions of the Kane's Son Xenomorph, I feel like they're completely different strains.

We've seen already how the Xenomorph reproductive system can be altered. Look at Alien: Resurrection, despite its many flaws. 

I feel as though this theory of alternate strains by design or by accident could account for the differences noticed between the Alien and Aliens Xeno's. It would also help explain the vast reaches of the Xenomorph DNA and biology which will undoubtedly be touched upon in Alien: Covenant and it's sequels.

What do you think? Could this make sense or is it too much of a stretch? Let me know in the replies below.

Replies

Centauri

Member

93

Posted Jun-09-2016 9:26 PM

this is a great topic because Ive always thought the xenomorphs in Aliens were alot different anyhow since Cameron and Winston remodeled the original concept and made so many. The Queen, and xenomorphs seems like, as Chris questions..."a different strain".

I can definately buy into this theory.

 

 

****

 "Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop

http://www.alien-covenant.com/series/

            

jpjoe84

Member

0

Posted Jun-09-2016 11:45 PM

This theory is definitely an eye opener! What if the engineer in Prometheus who got inpreganted was in fact female??? ( talk about a bit of a stretch) and the deacon alien is a baby queen? After the events in Prometheus an engineer ship finds the queen on LV 223 then crash lands on LV 426?

If this was already discussed I apologize

 

 

Leto

Member

1

Posted Jun-10-2016 1:17 AM

I always know what xeno in Aliens - is another species. Too many differences with classic Alien anatomy.

S.M

Member

0

Posted Jun-10-2016 1:30 AM

The creatures in the second film were older, so I prefer the theory that that accounts for the differences. (Jury's still out as for why some have arm blades and others don't).

 

Did every woman at the colony birth a Queen? The woman colonist who birthed the burster that Apone fried, didn't.

Gavin

Admin

305

Posted Jun-10-2016 1:47 AM

While I do like the possibility of this theory there has always been a problem with the genealogy of the Xenomorph, let me explain...

Although it's likely that most of the ridged head Warriors were born from face huggers from the Queen's eggs which could, as you speculate count for the differing appearance, the Queen or a xeno that brought forth the Queen through egg morphing (a la mine and Big Daves theory) would have been born from one of the eggs from the derelict Juggernaut. Kanes son (Alien) was also born from one of the eggs within the derelict Juggernaut, so theoretically ridged heads are born from queen laid eggs, and drones are born from derelict juggernaut eggs.

Next comes with the egg aboard the EEV in Alien 3, presumably this is an egg from a Queen, but yet the xeno that comes forth from the Dog/Ox is a drone, which would suggest that the egg is instead from the derelict juggernaut, which would support the theory that there was a second team of special black ops marines aboard the Sulaco tasked with collecting eggs from the derelict Juggernaut.

The problem is Alien Rez, in which a Queen is removed from Ripley, but the resulting eggs give birth to drones, going against the different strain idea, unless the strain is born from drones metamorphosizing whilst losing their carapace, as per James Camerons suggestion.

Xenotaris

Member

34

Posted Jun-10-2016 2:02 AM

I always thought the ridged head xenomorphs or Xenomorph Warriors were the more mature phase of the Xenomorph Drone, as per what James Cameron has stated in the director's cut.

Also they were going to have the "Drones" but a more smaller and weaker variety than Kane's Son which I would like to refer as the Xenomorph Stalker variety since its independent unlike the future portrayal of drones which are essentially smooth head warriors.

The Xenos from Alien Resurrection were genetic hybrids since it came from the clone Ripley 8 who is part human and part xenomorph, vice versa for the queen that's inside her chest, then later removed to start her hive. At the end of Alien Rez, the human DNA started to kick inside of the Hybrid Queen which she gave birth to a more even Hybrid (50% Xenomorph, 50% Human), the Newborn.

 

Gavin

Admin

305

Posted Jun-10-2016 3:40 AM

Well for Alien Rez I have always held to the fact that the humans had at least two queens, as both Ripley 8 (the main character) and Ripley 7 (naked and deformed in the room labeled 1-7) both had scars on their chest suggesting their Queens had been removed. This then begs the question, which Queen is left aboard the Auriga?

Ripley 8 seemed mostly human with only a small percentage of Alien DNA present, whereas from her deformities Ripley 7 had much more Alien DNA. As such the Queen from Ripley 7 would have had a good amount of Human DNA. The Queen on board the Auriga developed a womb, giving birth to the Newborn, which suggests she had more than a small percentage of human DNA, therefore suggesting she was the Queen taken from Ripley 7.

Of course, this means that the humans have another, less tainted Queen Alien, Ripley 8's Queen.

 

S.M

Member

0

Posted Jun-10-2016 2:23 PM

If they got a Queen from Ripley 7, why would they create Ripley 8?

Gavin

Admin

305

Posted Jun-10-2016 2:30 PM

Because the queen was tainted with too much human DNA

S.M

Member

0

Posted Jun-10-2016 2:44 PM

Ripley 7 would spawn a Queen with way more human genetic material than the one we saw in the film. And the Newborn would likely have no affinity with Ripley 8, if the Queen it came from was Ripley 7.

Gavin

Admin

305

Posted Jun-10-2016 3:20 PM

regardless, Ripley 7 had a queen removed from her chest as did Ripley 8. So there's another Queen out there somewhere.

brego

Member

4

Posted Jun-10-2016 4:35 PM

Like most theories, there are flaws in this argument. Many female hosts were present from Hadley's Hope. The Queen in AR had been cloned with a mix of Human DNA artificially added via the cloning process. Something laid the eggs beneath the Derelict as seen in Alien etc etc.

The argument is shrouded in mystery, this is what makes the Xenomorph so Alien and intriguing. In my mind all Xeno's are a mutated mix of supercharged DNA and genetic materials. Whether or not the outcome, generationally, of the "Black Goo" (I see this as a form of Genetic Cancer, created by the Engineer's or their makers) becomes something which we have seen so far or something new as to be seen in other films I don't know. I wish Ridley had delivered the initial idea's and script for Prometheus which delved into the idea of multiple carrier types of creation of life rather than the pedestrian dumbed down story we got. I guess we will need to see.

Perhaps the creature created after initial introduction to the black goo is random and depends on environmental triggers leading to multiple generations of creatures which rely on donated breeding processes and DNA to survive. Perhaps variants appear each and every time depending on the viability of the species used as a host utilising a basic body plan with minor physical changes. As this is pretty much what we have already seen in the movies, we pretty much need to accept this as cannon.

Really looking forward to finding out more in future movies. I just hope we move away from the more animalistic ideas in the newer releases.

  

brego

Member

4

Posted Jun-10-2016 4:41 PM

Oh. Sorry forgot to mention that in Alien 1 the Xeno is only days old. In A2 the Hive is at least many months old. Perhaps body plan, size and or the need for a Queen relies on time, availability of hosts and or environment..... Perhaps the original Xeno in Alien was about to mutate into a Queen on board the Narcissus.

Chris

Admin

1408

Posted Jun-10-2016 5:49 PM

I think once one Queen was birthed, and began spawning her own eggs, it would be her decision to create Queen Eggs. Obviously to reduce competition she would only produce Drone/Warrior Eggs for impregnation. If two or more Queens matured around the same time, I could see them killing each other off leaving only one.

There's so much time that passed between the initial exposure in Hadley's Hope to when the Sulaco arrived. There are just too many differences between the two Xenomorphs to say they're the same. Despite Cameron's claims that they're just older, I think it could be worked in quite easily that they were yet another strain. Instead of viewing the Alien as an insect I always viewed it as a virus. And viruses constantly mutate and change to better suit their hosts and environments.

S.M

Member

0

Posted Jun-10-2016 6:04 PM

The theory that they're older is the path of least making-too-many-things-up.

 

I think there's merit in terms of theorising that perhaps the Aliens on LV-426 are the only Aliens of that type in existence. They were an Engineer weapon that was only ever created once and never repeated.

 

And there's nothing to indicate there's a number 7 Queen still alive and viable; simply because they went to attempt 8.

BigDave

Moderator

265

Posted Jun-10-2016 7:13 PM

"both had scars on their chest suggesting their Queens had been removed. This then begs the question, which Queen is left aboard the Auriga?"

Yes they must have had a previous Queen but we dont know what happened to it but we have to assume the Queen we get is from Ripley 8.

I have a idea for a Alien R sequel, that ran parallel with the movie, which would cover the other Queen 7 being sent to another outpost  as well as Ripley 8 DNA. A story where the company was interested in acquiring  the first successful clone Ripley 8 DNA to then re-clone her for a Army of Ripley 8s or similar based Human Super Soldiers based off her DNA.

The company also use the Queen 7 that was more like the other New Born concepts and it re-produced via the Egg Morph Route.

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

BigDave

Moderator

265

Posted Jun-10-2016 7:22 PM

But as far as the Xenomorph, well firstly the reason for the Aliens ones was that they was producing a Action movie and the designs like Gigers where to fragile and so the head was changed for a more durable one.

Yes i heard how Cameron said this is what they Evolve too, but after seeing Alien 3 then i never brought that idea...

To me the Xenomorph like it or hate it, does have some traits of a Ant, Bee, Termite Hive...

I think that a Drone is created that has the aim of creating a Egg Morph Queen, once it has this it can also produce maybe a few Egg Morph none Queens?

Once a Queen is produced and its at the Age to produce Eggs, then a Hive is created and either something within the Hive Architecture or something to do with the Queen that either lets off hormones or produces something in the atmosphere that effects what kind of Embryo is produced.

Once a Hive is established then it needs protecting and something effects the Eggs to produce mainly Warrior Castes...

Should a Egg be taken far away from the Hive, it does not received these chemicals/signals or influence and so it produces a Drone, as a Automatic reaction to Procreate not knowing a Hive is established... a Egg that is some distance from the Hive will automatically produce a Drone to start the whole  Process again.

This theory explains the Egg Morph and why the Xeno in Alien and Alien 3 where similar.  its the best theory that i have....

Its like how when a Bee Hive loses its Queen then workers can then evolve a Egg to produce a Queen by feeding it royal jelly, but they only do this once they detect the Queen is dead or missing for a while... so to safe guard their species they then evolve a Egg to produce a Queen.

 

 

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

Batchpool

Member

11

Posted Jun-11-2016 1:54 PM

I can easily buy into the theory that egg morphing is the starting point, and that what come afterwards are various strains. On the Derelict, Kane observes a mist covering the eggs which responds to disturbances. It is like a trigger mechanism to activate life. In Prometheus there was an atmosphere change which resulted in the mural decaying, but also seemed to activate the contents of the urns. I have wondered if there is a connection here that is linked to prolonging the life cycle of the xeno. Is the mist generated by eggs, and so sets up an atmosphere that puts the eggs and xenos in stasis?

Maybe the first generation egg morphers are ‘designed’ not only to be able to replicate, but to also create a control environment suitable for their needs. I think the Queen is a 2nd generation strain that is focused on creating large numbers quickly.

What we do know about first generation egg morphers is that they can control their cell structures, which Ash remarked on, making them tough little SOB’s.

Necronom 4

Member

4

Posted Jun-11-2016 3:20 PM

The whole idea of the Alien needing to pro-create (in a very terrestrial insect way.) is James Cameron's idea. I really don't get that impression from ALIEN. What I take from ALIEN is that this perfect organism is something completely uncomprehendable to our understanding of life and the cycle of life.

I see it as an organism which was maybe created to punish and torture certain lifeforms.

It literally is the physical manifestation of the fires of hell or the grim reaper.

IT IS NOT A GIANT ALIEN INSECT!

It will always find a way to come into existence whether it be by way of egg morphing or changes in atmosphere which then causes the black stuff to come alive.

I could be completely wrong but I just feel that this horrendous organism's life cycle and means of existing isn't something which we should even begin to comprehend. 

The poster was good though!

 

Lone

Member

71

Posted Jun-11-2016 4:26 PM

Well, I'm waiting to see what Ridley comes up with. I doubt if he will consider Queens, and ridged-headed hives of MORBS to be in his canon!

 

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

S.M

Member

0

Posted Jun-11-2016 5:09 PM

No one is suggesting the Alien is a giant insect.  Doesn't change the fact that insects were a big influence on the creature right from the beginning. The most iconic piece of the Alien - the chestburster - is taken directly from Ichneumon Wasps.

Aorta

Member

8

Posted Jun-11-2016 6:10 PM

S.M.-

You are totally correct. The more peculiar and atrocious rites of Earth forms influenced the ideas behind MORB biology.

What we are holding on to here is a higher ideal, that the MORB's reproductive functionality is truly alien to anything we as humans can imagine.

The universe is probably fairly limited in terms of how life actually propels itself, but one thing about the Eggmorph idea that is unique is that no life form we know of makes its host into more of itself, with the exception of viruses. Hm. New thread coming on here. Hands off, fellow weirdos!

It has to be said too that more thought has been put into these ideas here than probably ever by the people in charge. If there is a Grande Roadmapio I'd love to see it.

S.M

Member

0

Posted Jun-11-2016 9:35 PM

Egg morphing is only unknowable to a point, and no more unknowable than the rest of its life cycle. If a caterpillar can undergo such a radical transformation to a butterfly, we can get closer to how a human can become an Alien egg (and once again we're back to an insect influence).  Enzymes digest and transform tissue in ways that a layman like me hasn't the faintest idea.

Xenotaris

Member

34

Posted Jun-12-2016 3:45 AM

Didn't Ridley make several references to ALIENS with his Prometheus movie? I think the origins of the Xenomorph Queen is still on the table. Otherwise adapting the Queen out wouldn't make sense in a continuity sense especially in the Prometheus website where they make mentions of prototypes of the M41A1 Pulse Rifle. So with that mind: We get Pulse Rifles but no Xenomorph Queen? Ps. Pulse Rifles were only in ALIENS and ALIEN 3

 

Gavin

Admin

305

Posted Jun-12-2016 4:26 AM

@ Xenotaris,

Indeed, a precursor to the P5000 Powerloader was shown on the Weyland Industries site used to promote Prometheus.

BigDave

Moderator

265

Posted Jun-12-2016 6:47 AM

Ridley had referred to the Xenomorph aka Big Chap Alien at the time prior to Aliens as being like a insect but he also said it was like a serpent too, and referred it as a dragon at times also.

while Ridley did not invent the Queen, he did say that it made sense as far as the Organism and Lifestyle.

The Queen is therefore very much Canon.... and it would be interesting to see how Alien Covenant and Sequels handle the idea of the Eggs and how they came to be.

But they wont rule out the Queen, maybe they could hint out that latter the Queen was a Mutation/Evolution of the Xeno Genome.

We have to remember the Evolution of the Organism

Star Beast: Our Organism was left over remains of a Ancient Alien Civilization that has the Egg Morph Life Cycle, once no Hosts Remained and Adults died out only Eggs Remained, but the Adults did use to use Temples to Sacrifice Hosts to create and start its life cycle.

The Space Jockey and his Derelict at this time was just but a unfortunate Race who stumbled upon the Spores just as the Human Crew Did.

Alien Draft: The idea had changed so that the Space Jockey was not connected to the Organism in some manner but we still had a separate Egg Chamber and Ship, but the Eggs were transported to the Ship for Bio-Weapons and not just a Alien Giant Race who came across another Alien Race well the Spores/Eggs of them.

Alien: They had to due to budget have the Egg Silo as part of the Ships Cargo Hold, but the idea was the same as above.

These 3 gave us the Egg Morph... Egg/Spore =>Face Huger => (Host) => Chest Buster=> Adult=>Host) =Egg/Spore

Aliens: Then based of theatrical cut where the Egg Morph was dropped then showed us and introduced a Queen that lays Eggs.

But then we had HR Giger (R.I.P) who had another idea that the Ships, Egg Silo would actually produce the Eggs, thus some Giant Bio-Mechanical Birthing Machine.   As far as a Bio Weapon this is the most destructive method.  A Weapon that produces its own Ammunition/Payload.

We cant be sure what way Alien Covenant will go, but it would try to connect Prometheus in which we see these Engineers have created a Substance that can genetically modify Genetic Material and that the stuff in the Urns is connected to the Xeno.

But we dont know yet if the Goo creates the Xeno or its Origin, or the Goo came from the Xeno or its Origin but it looks likely to be one of these.

And i think its which way they are going with that, to what way Ridley will connect the Origins....

But i think maybe a Egg Morph would play a role, but i think he could also give hints to how a Queen comes into play.

 

 

 

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

easternbunny

Member

0

Posted Jun-28-2016 7:05 AM

jpjoe84

Member

Posted Jun-09-2016 11:45 PM

This theory is definitely an eye opener! What if the engineer in Prometheus who got inpreganted was in fact female??? ( talk about a bit of a stretch) and the deacon alien is a baby queen? After the events in Prometheus an engineer ship finds the queen on LV 223 then crash lands on LV 426?

If this was already discussed I apologize

 

Funny . keep in mind that Ripley gives birth to a queen at the end of Alien 3 , right before she dies . Now if you compare both of these queens , the baby queen we get to see at the end of Prometheus is rather one  nightmare of a baby queen .When i was done with watching Prometheus I felt a little bit disappointed - but then I really was amazed all up for sudden , as I thought of the size a alien has in general , at the moment it starts to live . Unfortunately it is no queen . 

Still it seems to have very sharp instincts , if you consider his very first movements . Not waisting time at  all.

BigDave

Moderator

265

Posted Jun-28-2016 3:23 PM

Yes the Deacon was a Human/Xeno Hybrid and so was born as a Mammal would and that is in the form that it would be as a Adult, i.e maybe wont change apart from get larger and meaner looking.

Comparing a Cute Baby to a Charles Manson, or a Cute Lion Cub to a full grown Lion.

I would assume by Ratio of New Born Mammal to Adult size, average.. that the Deacon would thus grow to be about 18ft tall.

How it procreates who knows..

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

tigerjeb

Member

0

Posted Jun-30-2016 5:02 PM

I always looked at the aliens as a hive of bees (I'm a beekeeper btw). a queenless hive will try to create a queen by either creating a queen cell - an egg fed royal jelly, or in dire conditions a worker will be fed royal jelly, becoming an unmated queen, which produces only drones (males).

if an alien is hatched with no queen or hive, it would essentially be an unmated queen and its instinct would be to create a queen. I propose a live human (kane & dallas) would serve as royal jelly which would change an ordinary egg into a queen cell. once this queen emerges and mates to the alien which created her, we are off and running.

BigDave

Moderator

265

Posted Jun-30-2016 5:33 PM

Tigerjeb ;)

Great Point, nice to have someone with more insight into Bee Keeping ... your point is the same as i was making a while back as far as the Alien Drone in Alien.

The Organism has one thing on its mind as it does not detect pheromones or what ever that a Hive would give off... and so it goes to create a Queen via the Egg Morph.

Once a Hive is created and a Queen starts to lay Eggs there could be something that effect what kind of Face Hugger we end up with....  be this pheromones, or hive mind, or atmosphere conditions within the Hive.

That only Warriors are created to protect the Hive and Collect Hosts for more Warriors....

If a Egg was taken from the Hive to a Far away place, maybe somehow the Egg loses some influence that being close to the Hive and Queen had... And so the Organism that comes from it will become a Drone.

The Alien in Alien 3 was also a Drone only one that was from a Dog/Cow.... it would have had the same purpose.

This kind of fits in with your Bee Hive.... it would explain why the Alien 1979 did not seem to create 2X Eggs, or why it did not also use Lambert and Parker for another 2X Eggs... therefore 4X Face Hugers for a unsuspecting rescue mission.

Of if Lambert and Parker was to be a Egg and Host then we would have a ship that would now have a extra 2 Xenomorphs...

So why just the One Egg and Host? Why was the Room starting to look like a Hive?  Because if this produced a Queen She could then lay countless Eggs.

 

 

 

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

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