Alien: Covenant story redempton and epic continuation or NOT? (POLL)

"So John Logan is there to fix all inconsequences (logical and narrative) and character profiling, as well as all those tiny story details that matters!!!"

This seems like a good thing so maybe they have learned something from Prometheus.

One of the things that I am looking forward to is to see new characters. They can’t be much worse than Prometheus was in that part although not all characters in Prometheus were bad. As I have written an X amounts of times before I think that the Captain was cool, the Engineer was interesting and also David which was by far the most interesting character in the whole Prometheus movie.

I hope that they will continue some of the things from Prometheus namely the Engineers, the Xeno and David. They could have some things about the Xeno while not explaining everything about it, you got to keep some mystery you know? At the same time it should be better explained than Prometheus or else it will be a mess. When you explain something in a movie there is a thin line between explaining too much and being totally vague so people don't understand what you are trying to tell. In a way they should keep somewhere in the middle so it won’t be too vague and it won’t be too obvious so people can use their imagination to try to understand what happened.

I totally agree. David is also my favorite character...

I made a mistake and posted this on Alien forum instead on Alien: Covenant...
I would appreciate if admins movie this topic there (If that is possible).

I think this movie will be a SINK or SWIM  for the Franchise....

They tried to give us Prometheus, that evolved into a Plot about Ancient Giant Beings who played a role in creation of Mankind and Evolution of us as far as Technologically, and Genetically and giving us other Knowledge.. as well being a Race who may have created life on other Worlds. 

The connections to the Xeno was toned down, but shown there is some connection between the Xenomorph DNA and what ever those Engineers were Experimenting and Creating on LV-223...  The movie left a lot of vague clues.... that could connect to Xeno DNA.

The planned Sequel was off to follow the aftermath, after Shaw found out these Engineers are not from LV-223 and they had been creating something on that World to use on Mankind to destroy or at least Evolve Life on Earth that would lead to current lifes destruction...   and having found out these Engineers are not God in the Traditional Sense, and maybe a Traditional God did not create Mankind.

She wanted Answers.....  the next movie was going to give some of those and explore the Engineers their Agenda and Purpose, why we was created, why we was to be destroyed and maybe loosely cover what LV-223 was for... and loosely Xeno DNA.

But it was a movie that was not going to give us Xenos or Xeno Spoon Fed Orgins and especially the next movie.... but a 3rd movie would give more clues so we can be pushed to have a less Ambigious Answer... but the Franchise was to move away from the Xenomorph....  as Ridley said the Beast was cooked and only so much snarling you can do.

With Greens Re-write they had introduced Xeno DNA back into it but it would still not be a Xeno Literall Orgins but have more clues... and would show ONE or TWO related Xenomorph DNA Creatures that would showcase moer Xeno DNA than Prometheus did but would be a Fresher Form...

But the movie would still loosely follow the Engineers and Hierarchy, and Gods theme of Creation, and Rebelion and Destruction... such as Paradise Lost....

After this Blomkamps Alien 5 concept and ideas came about and Fox was interested in doing this movie... some elements would conflict with the Planned Prometheus Sequels and had to be changed... maybe Engineer Tech, Xeno Orgins and DNA and how the Company could get its hands on such things after Aliens....

The Internet was buzzing with interest and anticipation for Alien 5 more than Prometheus 2 and so seeing Xeno movie and Ripley was more exciting than Shaw finding Engineers or a few to ask why we was created and then why they wanted to destroy us while moving futher from the events of Alien and the Xenomorph.

So we had Alien 5 put on hold... elements changed to its Plot that was set not long after Aliens.... to now set 20+ years after Aliens....

We got Prometheus 2 renamed to Alien: Paradise Lost to give it more Name/Brand Recognition but the basic story was the same as Paglen/Green Plot with maybe a bit more Xeno DNA and Clues....

Then we got another Name Change....

Alien: Covenant and a new writter (Logan) and what seems like a bit of a U-Turn to the Plot from before...  a new Plot, one that focus more on a new Group of Humans and David 8 and introduce more Xeno Clues and will eventually lead to Alien and the Space Jockey.  No mention of Shaw or Engineers and the reason for Shaw and David going to Paradise or clues left on LV-223

Are they completely going for a different Plot over another 2 Alien Prequel Movies, and how much of the Original ideas would be followed... how many of the Clues from Prometheus would be answered or scrapped?

Have they in a way decided to re-boot the Xenomorph? or its Origin Story to something different than the connections they was loosely showing in Prometheus?

Who knows... but it seems Fox feels that a more Alieny Sequel to Prometheus is whats needed as Fans Interest seems more about the Xenomorph and Space Jockey, than Big Bald Humanoid Creators who are not even Gods.

I think they are using the Hype of Alien 5 and interest in the Xeno to give us a new Prequel Saga... one more connected to the Xeno... that then would allow them to go ahead and bring out Alien 5 and allow that movie to expand and loosely connect Engineers and their Technology and Xeno DNA Manipulation... and ideas to expand the Xenomorph Organism in more detail than the first 4 movies did...

By re-design a Prometheus Sequel to cover Xeno DNA more, it means a Alien 5 wont step on the toes or spoil the Plot for the eventual Alien Prequel Trilogy.

This step would gain more interest in THEORY... and after Alien: Covenant and Alien 5 there would be minor links to the Engineers that would make fans think... ermmmm i am not interested in these Engineers how they connect with the Xenomorph!

They may then go watch Prometheus... and it would allow a sequel to Alien Covenant to then introduce Engineers more and maybe some things from Promethues...

Maybe ending with the 3rd Alien Prequel/ Prometheus sequel.... that could connect more dots to the Engineers....

This would leave us with the Xenomorph Answers and Space Jockey and allow for a Alien 6, 7 and what ever... but then leave the door open to do a Prometheus Spin off that finally goes into detail about the Engineers.

THIS IS MY TAKE ON WHATS GOING DOWN!

Am i correct? who knows... time will tell.

So as far as expectations... etc....

I had some for the Prometheus 2  Paradise Lost and what i felt maybe was going to be shown... which i loosely covered above.... 

But since the U-Turn i am not quite sure what to expect, or how Shaw fits in...

Apart from i think that Alien Covenant will slot between Prometheus and Paradise Lost... it would be set after Paradise Lost Plot..... which is Shaw and David and what is left of the Engineers on Paradise and what answers if any they get.

And instead we get Covenant that would deal with the aftermath of when David gets to Paradise... maybe we see some clues to Shaw and David..?  I am expecting a movie that would have various flash backs...

Like it is going for 3 Plots/Stories that it would have a new one it would mainly be about but will have Parallel Plots as far as Flash Backs... definately set prior to David arriving on Paradise and maybe thousands of years ago... but maybe also a scene or two set in the time frame of post 2094 and prior to 2104  i,e David leaving LV-223 and Covenant arriving at Paradise.

I think the next movie would show more Xeno DNA and how it came to be...

Then the sequel to Covenant i think maybe cover Engineers a bit more, maybe or maybe not what happened to Shaw... ? or LV-223

As far as Covenant goes... here is what i think we shall see..

Covenant Colony ship is on a Long Journey to a uncharted world that surveys showed could be very Earth Like, a ideal Paradise to to colonise as a 2nd Earth.  At the time they set off on their journey  what little they know about their destination seems to show a World that could support life with little or no Terraforming required.

They would maybe have little or no knowledge of Prometheus not as far as what horrors that mission found.

They would get to this Paradise and find the place is not quite a Paradise as surveys had sugested...  the place has seen Disaster, and its now a Dangerous place... but i think the Crew of the Covenant would not be aware quite how Dangerous and find a David 8 model all alone on this World.

A David 8 who may be somewhat different, either he is less Synthetic and Covenant has a fully Synthetic... or David is still Synthetic and Covenant has a Human Double that would intrigue David 8

I think David 8 from Prometheus will lure the Covenant into a false sense of Safety.... and only David knows the True Horror of something Evolving on that Planet related to the Engineers Bio-Weapons or Evil Biology....

*Is this something left behind after the destruction of the Engineers on Paradise?

*Is its something created at the hands of David, that led to the Destruction on Paradise?

*If so what state was Paradise in when David found it?

Either way we are going to see a series of events that would highlight in more detail how we get to a Xenomorph in Alien...  as opposed to the Human/Xeno Hybrid we saw in Prometheus.

I think we would see more than one Xenomorph, and hopefully more than one kind of Xenomorph.

I do think they would have to give us some clues to the Engineers, but are they going to show us what Paradise was like before and Engineer Culture i.e Answers Shaw was hopping to find? I am not sure...   and are we going to see some clues to the fate of Shaw? i am not sure..

I think we would see some minor clues to what happend to Shaw... and i think David had a sinister role to play in that...

I think we would see Flash Backs of the Engineers but it would be more to do with what ever disaster or war had happened on Paradise that relates to the creation and use of such Evil Biology and the Xenomorph.

Thats what i can gather from the clues so far.

Big Dave:

Probably, if they make another movie that is too vague with bad characters, and so on then we will probably have to say good bye to this. This is why it is so important that they will make things better this time because it really had some interesting ideas.

The ideas of Prometheus were interesting. The connection to the Xeno should have been better so that was a disappointment if that was one of the ideas that they were trying to tell us with the movie. I didn’t see the Xeno connection until after watching it an X amount of times. Either it was bad writing or editing of the movie or a combination of both.

I don’t think that they should write it as a way for Shaw to get her answers, I think that there would be better if it would be about the Engineers and the monsters and not about Shaw so to speak although she can have a part in it. Maybe it would feel forced if they would focus too much on Shaws answers rather than about the Engineers and the monsters. There is a potential to make a better story if it is not based around one character at least in this franchise. You might think that this is a Shaw bashing but I would also be disappointed if they would base it all around David because there is a bigger potential than that.

As far as the amounts of movies and answers: I understand what you say but that doesn’t excuse writing a story that is confusing. Ridley said that the Xeno was done but if they will make a series about the Engineers which are connected to the Xeno then they should have to explain some about the Xeno also otherwise it would be like explaining Madison Square garden without mentioning hockey.

A bit more Xeno could be OK but if they would have more Xeno clues they should make it better than what they did with Prometheus – not too vague and not too obvious. This could be a difficult task but they must do better than Prometheus this is one idea of having different writers to correct mistakes. You don’t need too many writers but some that could correct mistakes and inconsistencies.

They should keep some ideas from Prometheus but they need to answer them in a smart way that isn’t confusing. If they will explain the Xeno I hope that they will do it better than in Prometheus. For me it is not about only the Xeno or the Engineers but about both (as far as people being more interested in the Xeno).

A prequel more connected to the Xeno could be interesting but I would like to see other monsters also since that would show more about the Engineers plus new monsters could be interesting depending on how they do it.

Please no Alien 6 and 7 that would be like a joke. Not even Star Wars could keep up the good things with the prequels it would probably be the same with Alien 6, 7, and so on.

I think that it could be interesting if they would find that Paradise that would be dangerous. Survival movies can be interesting and also we have the Martian (which I would like to watch) with a similar theme.

Why would David from Prometheus fool them into a false sense of security? I don’t understand this.

Hopefully they will explain the eventual Xeno in Prometheus 2 in a good way. I agree about having more than the traditional Xeno being that we have seen it so much by now. Something new can be interesting both in how it looks and how it behaves, the behavior is probably more interesting than the look at least to me.

I would appreciate if they would show some of the Engineer culture or at least give strong hints to it in the movie.

Maybe they could use David as a way to explain what happened to Shaw instead of having that much of interaction between David and Shaw? I would prefer to have it this way because I think that the David character is interesting.

There was a disaster on Paradise but if it will play a big role then they need to be good at explaining that so it won’t be something that they will rush in order of pacing. I would rather have a movie that is 2,5 hours with explanation than a movie with pace that is 1,5 hour where you don’t understand what is going on.

Hopefully they are responsible for other bio-weapons than the Xeno, that would be interesting to see and it would also show the Engineers as more dangerous than the Xenomorph (now imagine that). They need to explain the Engineers batter than in Prometheus and I think that there is a way to do that which could be interesting.

"Why would David from Prometheus fool them into a false sense of security? I don’t understand this."

This would depend on how much the Covenant Crew knew about Prometheus or LV-223 i think they should know next to nothing.... and also if the Covenant Crew detect alive and well Engineer civilisation but the Synopsis sugests they only find David.

so my point is, what would Covenant Crew be like when they find David, especially if David is changed in someway... If Covenant knew of Shaw and David before they got there this would add to the problem.

That would be... surely the Crew wont be as naive and stupid as Prometheus?

They are bound to have Questions... and depend what state Paradise is in, they may have futher Questions... and i think David would have some idea of whats going on,  did he play a role in it? If not he would know what could have happened and he has a ship with a Nasty Cargo..

And i think he would have to try and keep all he knows from the Covenant crew, and so make it so they trust him and are not aware of what is going on... Maybe David has some Urns or something else Nasty and he would convince the Crew its not  Hazardous.

Thats what i mean... as well Paradise is a scene of Disaster and there is something evolving and you would think the first sign of any of this... the Crew would be like... i am off...

Unless David disables the ship but in a way that the crew do not know he is behind it.. i think what i am getting to is like Prometheus i feel no soon as David saw the Head Explode and looked at the Goo in the Urns he knew a hell of a lot more about what is going on than we saw in the movie..

But he choses to keep it all from everyone...

As far as Shaws Answers these are the Movie was to be about as a back story... but she would not find out them all, not in a nice way.... I feel the movie would have answered them... but not full on....

Shaws Main Questions was..

*Why did they create us?

*Why did they want to destroy us?

*Why did they change their minds?

*If the Engineers are not God/Gods.. who created them?

I think she would have found out about these... but that dont mean it has to be in a way where a Engineers Tells her..

Lets look at Prometheus Questions... reason for Shaws mission

*Why did many Ancient Cultures have Star Maps to LV-223?

*What role did these beings play in our creation and what purpose?

*What has happened to them, why have they not came back?

She never got to get these Answers as they was all dead, apart from the last one who well only answered Weylands Questions, in a mild way.

But Shaw got to find out, that there was nothing devine about creation and these Engineers did indeed share our DNA but they are also Mortal and very Human Looking.

But this place was not what she expected, it was a place to create Death, to create something Horrid that was intended to use on Mankind.

These Two Answers we found out, without any Engineers saying... yes we created you from our DNA.... and then yes we created this Bio-Weapon to use on Earth to destroy life on Earth... or Evolve it...

We found this out... but not from a single word from any Engineers... so thats kind of what i mean as far as she find out some Answers...  but i dont think it could end well for her...

That was what i thought we would see, but now who knows..

One thing I know for sure... there is going to
be plenty of death in Covenant... :) :) :) 

This one will be pretty much different from Prometheus, and answers will come
in a very unexpected ways... of course not full answers as Dave said.
We all expect that story will continue in some straight and conventional ways but when I heard that they used some Matrix themes (presumably) to define and continue the story, well then everything is possible... Maybe David transcendented time and went 2000 years in past and destroyed Engineers on LV-223 because if they destroyed humanity, he would never come to be...  Just kidding... :)

I always imagined David as ultimate bad boss... he has that aryan look and childish enthusiasm about everything... but his motives and only agenda are clear: He wants his parents to die (as he said). So what will he do in "Paradise"???

There is clear hierarchy in movie, and that will play some significant part... Engineers, Humans, David (2x; two Davids), Xenos and maybe someone new...

Paradise is not green, but Ridley will definetly begin movie with some grand opening sceens (flashbacks as he did in Prometheus) of original Paradise. I think that he is going to shoot that big forest and then that mountain, because he explicitly said that they examined the top... So he need some sceens there...??? I certanly dont expect outdoor movie from Ridleys Alien movie... So huge temples, ships, strange buildings and desolated sceneries (claustrophobic) are certan in this movie... Maybe there will be huge (bio-mechanoid) facility for creating something, and David will be there...??? Maybe we ll really have some time travel and relativity elements in movie... or something from Matrix...

We dont know ... Anything is possible
to expect from this one...ANYTHING!

And only one thing is 100% certain: Covenant  will either be epic
or it will fall to the deepest pits of abyss. :)

End of story.

Big Dave:

I think that I understand what you mean.

As far as being as naïve as the Prometheus crew hopefully they have learned something. Having two movies in a row with clueless crew members would be the end if the Prometheus franchise.

David and urns: didn’t they say that David wanted to be in the top of the hierarchy or something similar? Hierarchy and creation are close to each other so maybe it makes sense that David has some urns with goo.

I think that it would be good if Shaw doesn’t find all answers because that is what happens to humans in real life no matter if it is in science or in everyday life. The answers that Shaw finds could make her terrified/traumatized, that would be cool thing I believe which also fits into how it was done in Alien (1979) which could also tie the Prometheus movies closer to the Alien movies if we look at Prometheus as a prequel to Alien. Maybe she would react like Lambert did when she faced the Alien like in shock or something of course it doesn’t have to be exactly like that but something similar to it. Compare it to when people discover things in real life that they think is very frightening.

There could be some things that are un-answered because then you can use your imagination to try to find out an answer yourself but then the characters must be believable and so on. They managed to get the characters right in Alien and Aliens so they can make it right this time but it requires a lot of work. If most characters are being well done then I don’t think that they need to have all characters being perfect with all characters I also mean those that will not play a significant role to how the movie will develop.

Enoch333: 

I like the Matrix movie so sure why not? There were some mysteries in the Matrix but they were answered in ways that made sense and it also made you think about how we live in our world and how we perceive it. These are topics that are sort of philosophical something that they were trying in Prometheus or at least something close to it the difference is that the characters in The Matrix were interesting and it was done in a clever way while the way Prometheus was done was a disappointment in many ways while some of it was interesting.

As far as how they portray Paradise some flashbacks would be good to see. Flashbacks are good because then you connect the present to the past and wonder what happened. If they make it interesting then they could use some of it to be left to the imagination but then a lot of other things must work that is what Alien did.

A facility for creating this could be interesting. The Engineers create different life forms sort of like scientists that experiment with bacteria so that could be something. I think that it would be interesting to see how their labs are since they probably have very different technology compared to humanity but how would that look like?