Are Triceratops and Torosaurus the Same Dinosaur?

LORD OF THE SPINOSAURS - This has always been a very hot and extremely interesting topic for debate! For my part, after having reviewed the various findings and the manner in which they're presented, I believe that Tricerotops and Torosaurus are in fact the same species. The proof is in the puding, so to speak. Many animals throughout Earth's history have evidenced strange and sometimes drastic physiological changes over the course of their lives; it would come as no surprise to me if ancient life-forms also underwent alterations to their anatomy as they progressed in age. Now, that doesn't mean that I am 100% positive that Triceratops and Torosaurus are the same animal. It very well may be that they are separate by a considerable degree; there's no way to be absolutely certain with extinct fauna of such age. However, I'm fairly confident that they constituted the same creature over various life stages.

    This was a very neat topic to consider! Thank you so much for bringing it forward for our consideration! :)

This has been done before, but nonetheless, always an interesting topic. I don't know much about stuff when it comes down to the science, like bone density and the length of this bone compared to this bone, so it's always an interesting read for me. 

With the information provided, that is quite a bit of evidence to prove they are the same animal. Perhaps very few trike individuals actually made it to adulthood. Maybe they could have reproduced prior to adulthood, and thats why there are so many of them. Can't explain what killed them though. Predators, natural disasters, drowning, falling, rivals, starvation (massive herds, the strongest eat first, the weaker members could starve), and so on. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't trike fossils been found farther north where Toro fossils haven't been found, and Toro farther South where no trike fossils have been found?

^ I'm not sure about Trike fossils farter north than Toro fossils, but Toro fossils have been found farther south than Trike fossils.

I don't believe they were the same.

I remember that I read somewhere that they are not the same animal. I will try to find the website and show you guys. I can't see these being the same since they both have diffrent frills and body sizes, plus they were found I'm different areas and from what I herd they lived seperatly from each other. This kind of like pachycephlosaurus dracorex and stigmoloch, which are all the same animal says jack Horner. I again disagree since they would not go through such dramatic and intense changes in head structure. Pachy would of had a smooth done head with some little numbs and spikes around the edges while  dracorex has a head full of spikes which is way to much of a change in head gear. Never mind this I may make a thread about it later. Triceratops and torosaurus have different frills. Toro has the largest frill of any ceratopsian, larger then triceratops which means that they can't be the same species because trike couldn't change his frill size and shape that late in life. To me they are different species and always will be. IMHO.

Well Jack Horner has found a juvenile Triceratops that was about a year or two in age when it died. And this juvenile Triceratops did not really even have a frill at all. And when they cut into the bones they found it was even more spongey inside than the bones of an adult Triceratops. This means that dinosaurs skulls changed in shape as they aged. And this also points to the fact that Dracorex, Stigmoloch, and Pachycepalosaurus are the same dinosaur,  especially because it was spongey inside Dracorex and Stigmoloch and because Pahchycepalosaurs are close relatives of the ceratopsoids. Also birds like the cassowary gow through changes in there skull shape, male cassowarys are born without a crest but as they age it grows, and the cassowary IS a dinosaur.

Yes but the cassowary does not completely Change skull size and shape as with Draco, stigi, and pachy. And torosaurus and trike are similar in size do there wouldn't have been enough time to change the frill size and shape. The reason jack Horner found the sponginess inside the bones of the young trike is because it was in its developmental stage in life.

The big thing for me is the fact that Horner thinks Triceratops is the immature Torosaurus. How does that make sense when Triceratops is the larger of the two? I'd say their different species.

I swear Torosaurus was bigger than Triceratops.

Triceratops was around 8-9 meters long and 5-7 tons while Torosaurus was 7-8 meters long and 2-4 tons...

http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/herbivorousdinosaurs/p/torosaurus.htm

http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/herbivorousdinosaurs/p/triceratops.htm

Here's a very interesting article on the matter...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17192624

Thanks rex fan, I couldn't post a link. And lord of the spinosaurus check your PMs.

Personally I think they were the same animals, but that's just me. When I watched the TedTalk with Jack Horner about this subject it made sense to me, so personally I believe in it.

Personally, I lean towards them being separate genera because of the skull shape.  Off the top of my head, Triceratops horridus was the only ceratopsian to have a fully solid frill, and with Tyrannosaurus running around, it would be easy to say that the frill came in handy when protecting its neck.  Other ceratopsians' frills had those large holes, which don't make good shiels since the only things a tyrannosaur or other predator would bite through would be connective tissue, some fat, and skin.  Perhaps Triceratops was hunted more by Tyrannosaurus than Torosaurus?

^Concur. Also, if Triceratops is a juvenile Torosaurus, why would Toro have holes in its frill while the Trike has solid bone? I just find this evidence to prove the argument that they are the same species vague and unconvincing.