Back to the Drawing Board

After watching 'The Furious Gods' (making of 'Prometheus'), it gives me the impression that a lot was shot, then Fox wanted something else completely (even after Lindelof submitted his first few drafts), which called for re-shoots, removals of scenes and editing and changing the chronology of scenes/events. The only thing I can pick up on that Scott really switched on his own was going from Xeno-like Fifield to Zombie Fifield because he wanted to keep more of the actor (Harris) in the mutation. That scene is one that clearly had the chronology changed because we see differences in the trailers (Shaw reversing vehicle, Weyland coming out with mercs firing guns) versus the theatrical release. That being said, if 'Prometheus 2' does a fantastic job making 'Prometheus' look brilliant in the areas where it was... not so brilliant :-), then I don't think 'Prometheus' would ever be a minor side show.

[u]Prometheus[u] can't be a stand alone movie. Without at least one sequel, it will be nothing. They not only need the sequel to finish the story they started, to answer the main questions, they need a sequel to explain all the 50 or so vague things in the movie.

As much as it pains me to say this, Ridley has actually said it can be a stand alone movie.

Batchpool How much of that was ridleys choice ????

@ Oduodo Good point. That's a million dollar question.

If the movie stands by itself - ok - will people at the end of the day watch a sequel not knowing if the engineer half the size of the space jockey (and seemingly the same with ship) are indeed in the same universe and if so will it be the story of the engineers (9 feet tall ) or the story of the sj and his people. Are the engineers the space jockeys people ???? As ridley asked who are his people ?? I dunno...... They can go away from the huggers and xenos but then telling me the story of the engineers - is that the story of the SJ ? At least I want to why we ships o f the same shape but twice the size ??? Nice thread. Thank you.

At the moment my feeling is that the sequel will probably address some of the mysteries from Prometheus, but not all of them. It will also, like Prometheus, raise more questions than it answers. We will be stuck in a never ending cycle of ambiguity which we will never get all the answers to. Ridley really needs to develop a clear plan of the whole story and FOX need to keep their beaks out and allow creative freedom! That is the only way IMHO that we will get a franchise that we ALL love.

The movie stands alone more easily than it stands with the Alien franchise, with the exception of Alien itself, and then there is still one glitch, being the Engineers size. But that's only a glitch if we are to understand that they are the same species as what is on LV 426, which is not necessarily a given, and there are in fact clues that suggest otherwise. I've always felt that part of the problem is that Prometheus renders the beloved Alien franchise a sort of side show, albeit a massive one, kind of " look what happens when one little bit of this matter gets loose..". Prometheus teeters on making the Morb a minor, secondary consideration. The nerve of those guys!

I agree MN!

@ Oduodo Ridley stated before making Prometheus that he wanted to give us the story of the big guy in the chair. Has he done that? Imo No. What he has given us are Engineers and a little info about them, but that is not the big guy in the chair. I think that is an avenue that is still open to explore. @ Necronom 4 I think Ridley started out with a clear plan but somewhere it got hijacked. Hence, back to the drawing board. @ Major Noob (Prometheus teeters on making the Morb a minor secondary charater) This is my major gripe. As much as Prometheus exists within the same Alien universe, this is where the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater. At some point someone has given Ridley the green light to produce something, and I am really itching to know what it is. I think the issue of the difficulties coming up with the script may partly be down to Prometheus looking like it has written itself into a corner, whereas the truth of the matter may be that there are so many possibilities about which direction it should go in. The marketing dept of Fox is going to have its work cut out for it, simply because I for one will be looking for the slightest hint of a Xeno in any forthcoming virals.

[quote]Given that Ridley was not able to go where he wanted in what he put on screen, I have come to the conclusion that Prometheus ‘developed’ into a stand alone movie, but at what point it became that, who knows?[/quote] According to Jon Spaihts; changes begin when the FOX changes his mind about the prequel. [quote] It is only through lots of debating, and looking through all the threads generated I have come to the conclusion, What if Ridley during his final editing decided that it would be better to deliver a film that tries to get away as far as possible from what was first conceived. That way it would be possible to leave the door open on being able to make a movie that goes back to what the original idea was.[/quote] Would be like an insurance policy or a lifeline for a badass film in the future :p...But anything is possible anyway...They can fire in all directions with the sequel, so in conclusion Prometheus is a stand alone film, because it is not tied to anything.

@ Shambs 'Would be like an insurance policy or a lifeline for a badass film in the future'. Well put. That's exactly what I am driving at :)

Or maybe the whole "taking it in a new direction" was all down to the suits at FOX so that they could cash in on a new franchise.

@ Necronom 4 I bet you are right. “taking it in a new direction†was down to the suits . But as to how much of a new direction did’nt become apparent until later down the line. I feel Fox got Ridley under false pretences, and what Ridley thought he was going to be able to make was removed from his grasp after he had signed the dotted line and was contractually committed to the project.

@Batchpool I hope so, I hope Ridley is trying to save the really kick ass story from the ambitious hands of FOX XD @Necro Yes, the greed!!! and It is very likely that they want more money, and you can not achieve that with a single movie.

Batchpool- I'm not so sure. The disconnect for me is I don't see Fox saying: " Right. We aren't happy with this obvious crowd pleaser of a story, rather than finesse it lets change this multimillion dollar blockbuster event into a cartoony surrealist art film that will piss off pretty much all but 12 people in the entire world ( Im one of the 12, for those who don't know).

The thing is that Prometheus has left off where we have our intrepid adventurers off to meet a civilisation that are considered gods by their advanced technology. This hidden civilisation will no doubt have an underclass and be interspersed with monsters and some moral dilema’s. Our adventurers will no doubt want to seek a way back home at some point or join the ranks of that civilisation. What we are looking at then is just a re make of Warlords of Atlantis, only on the other side of the universe. Can’t say I would be too enthralled by that prospect, but that kind of film is a crowd pleaser and makes money. The one thing that imo that would nail the whole story into place, would be some common thread that can connect up an explaination for the derelict on LV426. I don’t think that is too much to ask, along with the odd xeno or facehugger thrown in for good measure. If Prometheus is supposed to be a prequel, then you can only keep sidestepping the xenos for so long.

They have to use the strengths the first movie has, and try to develop a story that is sensible and satisfying. I would like to see everything explained, and if they can't explain a new idea I don't want them to put it in the movie. The characters were meant in a way to be slaughtered by monsters on LV 223, so little effort was made to make them good, but I'd rather see them acting sensibly no matter if they're going to be killed. It takes away from the movie, otherwise, not only in suspension of disbelief, but it can be just painful to watch. One of the things they have going for them is a sense of suspense and epic grandeur, as Shaw embarks on her quest for answers. So to answer this, they better make the engineers home world a sight to see, and Shaw should get a clear answer even if she only learns it from a hologram playback David activates (assuming no one is left). There is no point to this, unless they intend to build sci-fi around it.

[img]http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/mcsnapshot/SCI%20FI/whatwaseggspected_zpsbb1e50de.jpg[/img]

Hahahaha quality!

That's classic !!! Where did you get it ???? Lmfao x 10000 !!!!!!!

@ Oduodo I edited the images together myself. Glad you like it. Cheers for the appreciation. :) [url=http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/mcsnapshot/SCI%20FI/whatwaseggspected_zpsbb1e50de.jpg]image link [/url]

It wont be a stand alone movie, here are what basically 1) Ridley wanted from the movie and what the 2) franchise is hinting to go down and also 3) the reasons some scenes left out.. 1) Ridleys main aim for the movie after Lindeloff came in was to explore who the race behind the Space Jockey was.. Ridley had said ages ago that the SJ was a suit and not a skeleton. We was shown that behind these suits and Derelict/Juggernauts are a race of tall Humanoids, now the drafts had our Engineers being 12-15ft and that was revised to supposed to be 9-10ft but really they could only pass what we saw on LV 223 as 8ft beings. The idea behind Prometheus was that these beings had created life on Earth via a Sacrifice of their own kind to spread their genes. The movie hints they came back over many years to teach us, to upgrade us and we built temples and also worshiped them as Gods, in many ancient cultured depicted as Giant Beings from Space. The only let down as far as this was, that the size of these Engineers did not appear as giant as they would like and certainly not the 15ft the Space Jockey was but this can be fixed. 2) Paradise seems to be heading down the road of Shaw and David going to try and find the Home World these Engineers came from, and that LV 223 was just a watch post that was maybe changed to at some point or intended all along to produce and store a Bio Weapon to effectively destroy mankind and indeed life on Earth by mutating it into something new and horrific.... Why? Maybe this is one of the things the movie would answer as well as... Why did they create us? Who created them and what is the Engineers whole Agenda... 3) Ridley had removed the Elder Scenes as for one he did not want to give too much away about the Engineers and Elder Culture etc in the first movie. He has hinted these Engineers are not Gods at all but more like Angels and Fallen Angels and he did not want to meet God/Creator in the first movie and this/these creators are not God in the traditional sense. Ridley was not happy with the final look of the Elders too, he felt they just did not look as epic and awe inspiring as he hopped. Granted they looked very frail. He changed the Engineer scenes to make them appear more of a basic being with limited functions so they was depicted as just being some race created for a purpose and to follow orders and that they was aggressive as opposed to being more varied and intriguing in the deleted scenes. This to me indicates that the Engineers are being cast as mere servants to the greater Agenda of the Elder Race and that the Elders will be revamped. In essence the Engineers are merely to the Elders as David is to mankind. Maybe the Engineers or some of them had revolted against their creators? Ridley has every ability to go and re-create the Elders to make them more epic like Titans, and he also could go as far as give reason for why the Space Jockey was taller than our Engineers... These Elders and their creators had created these Engineers for a purpose and these Engineers could be drafted as a race of clone/made in Elders Image slave race of 7-10ft beings..... The Elders could be revamped to be taller race of 10-15ft or indeed have another race of Humanoids created that are 12-15ft tall... They could even have the Space Jockey as a Hybrid Race between Engineers and Humans to produce true Giants just as the Bible states.. So things can be fixed... The only things i feel that will not be fixed or shown are.. 1) We will see the Space Jockey as anything but Humanoids in Space Suits. 2) We will not be shown the Space Jockey on screen flying the Derelict etc etc. 3) We will not see anything to rule out Aliens as Canon, and infact we may not see much to explain the Xeno apart from vague clues etc.. i.e maybe less Ambiguous than Prometheus Clues but i dont expect to see any Xenos of even related Organisms running around like Spaights Draft.

@shambs Spaights orginal ideas and Ridleys was that a crew from Earth go to find clues left by these Engineers who created us on Earth and what they find is LV 426 and that this place is a outpost to breed/create/experiment on a Organism to produce many different varations of these Bio Weapons. It hints that these Engineers ultimately fell prey to their experiments and Bio Weapons. And the movie basically covered more of what kinds of horrors that the Out Post Contained and that these killed off all but one of the Engineers. We are shown various incarnations of Xeno related Organisms and also a traditional Xeno Face Hugger.... Some areas of the movie are a bit blurry but it does hint that they could be intending that the Last Engineer, was the Space Jockey and the Organism that Chest Busted on the Derelict then went on to Hunt for Shaw... Or maybe it may not have been? in which case Spaights draft could have happened on another side of LV 426, and thus maybe the Space Jockey is unknown and maybe could led way to that the Space Jockey was carrying Eggs from some place and crashed created a SOS but the Engineers either still carried on despite the outcome of the Space Jockey or that they indeed came across the Space Jockeys Cargo and transferred some to another part of LV 426 to began experiments on? Lindeloff then came on board to change it from a YES Xeno Eggs came from or was already on LV 426 by time Engineers set up camp there, and that the Space Jockey was either the Last Engineer or was another Engineer at another point in time who also suffered a fate with the Bio Weapon. So a movie that was more prequel and featured Xenos etc. Lindeloff came in to tone down the Xeno aspect and explore more of who the Engineers was and the reasons they create life, and also change LV 426 setting to a near by outpost on LV 223. Which i think was the best thing to do..... I do hope we get more clues to the Xeno, but i dont want a spoon fed movie thats just going to be a Alien 5 etc... but set prior to Alien. Nope i think the Engineers, their creators their Agenda and Culture is a much more better story to follow than the done to death Xenomorph.

@oduodu Its hard to say but when i see the Juggernaut and Shaw leaving and going to it, it does not appear twice the size of the Derelict. The Pilot Room did seem a goof 50% larger, and yes the Derelict seemed to have a larger lower Cargo Hold, but when you see the models you could get of the Derelict and look at how far down the Egg Cargo Hold was, well its seems it wont fit in the Derelict. So yes there is a scale mess, and always has been... The Space Jockey was supposed to be 26ft tall, the scene when the crew walk into the Pilot Chair room seems massive and almost twice size as Prometheus.... But thats because he used child actors and these gave us a Space Jockey of about 23ft not 26ft We then have the close up shots and then we see the Space Jockey Head etc is actually not vastly bigger than the head Prometheus had found... These then showed us our Space Jockey was about 15ft tall. Which in reality he was between 13-16ft based on Chair Actual size and guess length of Space Jockey assuming does his feet go all the way to the end.... Prometheus they did in drafts intend us to see a 15ft race, then a 12ft one. But again on screen that never happened.... The Dead Engineer and Engineer Suits on Walls all appeared to show us a 9ft race. Maybe hopping to create illusion of being 10ft... The people on Prometheus even said these Engineers was 9-10ft tall. But again with Alien the illusion never worked, and we actually saw Ghost Engineers who appeared to be about 8ft tall and then also the Last Engineer who appeared in some scenes about 8ft (where he was in certain angle and raised platform only showing from hips and up, well knees in some shots). To then other shots like when he was attacking Shaw and going through the Lifeboats Air Lock Doors that actually showed our Engineer to be 7.5ft tops... Basically both Alien and Prometheus they could not keep the Space Jockey/Engineers the size they wanted and they showed shots in both movies that appeared to give 2/3 different heights on our Space Jockey/Engineers... And as i said this can be fixed and explained.... Why cant the Elders had created different Humanoids in their image and thus a 8-10ft and 12-15ft races of Engineers?

Bigdave You think the derelict telescopic chair and the engineer jugg telescopic chair are the same size ??

@BigDave, Yes! sometimes he looks taller... [img]http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u498/protoxeno86/prometheus_1_zpsea87cfbe.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u498/protoxeno86/prometheus_engineer_by_lady_shai-d5urjmt_zps9aa79877.png[/img] [img]http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u498/protoxeno86/prometheus_engineer_by_lady_shai-d5urk1d_zpsbb892df7.png[/img] [img][img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/prometheus_engineer_by_lady_shai-d5urk1n_zpsf6380588.png[/img] [/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/engineer_speaks_5_zps62946634.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/prometheus-new-7_zps2bb0e122.png[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/w8bJatt_zps87542afd.jpg[/img] like in this concept [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/tumblr_m5nxu553tj1rrn3x9o1_1280_zps5581bc8a.jpg[/img] I also hope to see more scenes of engineers wearing their suits, in the sequel. [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/33ll10y_zpsb5f1bf21.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/vi8cFN0tcuM_zpsa774c023.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/USsw0UfOhRg_zps41378e06.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/Lpsb8awFPkA_zpsd666b12b.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/d3rC5uutSc0_zps6f35d4a7.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/gCV_4vl6q84_zps8ee562f8.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/7k4FWdA0gpg_zps68dd1129.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/psNyV89c9l0_zps10356059.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/lKiM_XiqGEA_zpse4cb7f6d.jpg[/img]

@oduodu Nope they are not, but a lot of this error comes from the shooting.... to be honest Ridley has royally $"£% up lol.. If we look how the Pilot Chair looks in Prometheus and consider the size of the Engineer as 7.5ft then Alien when we see the child actors walk up to it then the Chair looks 2X size near enough.... In reality the Prop in Alien was 16-18ft Long, in Prometheus it was 10-12ft long... or so [img]http://darkstarfilms.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/alien-space-jockey-04.jpg[/img] [img]http://images.dvdfr.com/images/anecdotic/prometheus_space_jockey.jpg[/img]

LOL The engineers are a little larger than the arm of the original Space Jockey?

lol..... Almost lol... I would say the Original Space Jockeys Arms are about 6ft2" to 6ft5" His head considering its a mask i.e if we look at the Prometheus one compared to Engineer inside, then his head would be almost 3X that of a Humans. The Space Jockey was a odd image and its one that made some ponder was he a Pilot fused and stuck permanently to the chair, and one reason was the proportions i.e we dont see his bottom half. The calculations i make put the Space Jockey Prop as being 13-15ft tall. I have had some argue thats not the case and that its 25ft+ easy and it looked 5x the size of the Crew of Nostramo..... well not quite even when using Child Actors... Its like common sense of scale problem.... you see some do think te Engineer looks a good 9ft in some scenes, but until someone has seen someone that tall in real life you would not notice how huge that is.... now we ant got no one who is 9ft tall... But i did known someone who was 6ft11 and he was huge looked massive in real life... Anyway looking at some of the Engineers hots i picked this one as he looks bigger in this shot.. [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/prometheus_engineer_by_lady_shai-d5urk1n_zpsf6380588.png[/img] Engineer is in the foreground so that makes him larger... If we assume Weyland and David are 6ft then the Engineer appears to be 8ft2" approx if we use this shot, but this is only due to the actor being in front, like Weyland appears bigger than David yet Fassbender is taller than Guy Pearce who is 5ft10" Fassbender is 6ft I will do a image to show a Engineer compared to Weyland if he was first the 9ft unsuited minimum height intended for the movie and the 15ft tallest from the draft and the Space Jockey size and will post it.