Alien Movie Universe

Shaw, the Space Jockey from Alien

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The First Child

MemberOvomorphOct-25-2013 10:28 AM
Hello everyone! I had an idea. Do you think Elizabeth Shaw could be the Space Jockey from Alien? Elizabeth stands as a Prometheus like figure in this franchise. -She toys with the gods' fire, the ampules. -Her body is cut into in order to remove an alien, which is similar to Prometheus having his liver ripped out. -She has red hair. Also, like Prometheus, it may be possible that Shaw continues to have alien children, and that the trilobite was just the beginning of a long and torturous breeding process. This make explain the small hole in the chest of the engineer in alien. After all, we never saw what the trilobite looked like fully developed. It was removed before it could be naturally born.
15 Replies

Necronom 4

MemberNeomorphOct-25-2013 1:11 PM
Hi First Child. Sorry, I don't think that the SJ in ALIEN is Shaw. I believe that SJ died over 2 thousand years prior to the events in Prometheus. However, what Ridley decides to do next is anybody's guess and by the time he gets round to making a Prometheus 2 and maybe even a P3, he may have lost the passion for it and think 'meh, feck it, I can't be bothered.'

The poster was good though!

 

Anunnaki50

MemberOvomorphOct-25-2013 5:49 PM
Nah its too much like that "return to LV426" I dont think Ridley will go there its too predictable and full circle type of thing. However he will go further into who these big guys are and why they created the black mutagen. I honestly believe that there really could be a real alien race out there using the pan-spermia method using meteors or ther form of conveyances.

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

Fleshvessel

MemberOvomorphOct-25-2013 10:07 PM
I was discussing this a while back, and wondering about how Shaw and/or David pilot the Juggernaut. Is the suit/cannon deal necessary? If so, how could they possibly fit inside? Maybe this is why David's head being removed may be a handy thing? In any case, as weird/unlikely as it may be, i do sort of want her to be the SJ! It's such a tragic end, it could be beautiful- we do know David is aware of 426, so it's not out of the question that they may end up there. I know it's crazy, but for some reason, i'm in.
THETRICKISNOTMINDINGITHURTS

Alien DNA

MemberOvomorphOct-25-2013 10:32 PM
Just a thought fleshvessel, but it was my understanding that if David knew about Lv-426 it would be because of the SJ's signal, so that would mean either one couldn't be in the SJ suit from Alien. Actually, I just read your post wrong didn't I? You were saying that they could end up there at the very least because of his knowledge of the beacon, right? I'm wondering who would be flying the ship as well, I would think it would be David flying/navigating while Shaw sleeps in a cryo sarcophagus. I'm not against her being the original SJ, just wondering if it really fits well.

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-27-2013 10:09 AM
@Necronom 4 Yes correct point about that Shaw cant be the SJ as the SJ had been killed for thousands of years, but in your other post you indicate that only the Worms can lay Egg, and sound like you hope that explains no Queen.. But we have to also remember the SJ and its Cargo had been on LV 426 for thousands of years before the events of Prometheus. All clues to me point out that nothing from Prometheus Evolves into what we saw in Alien, so Hamerpedes do not become the cause of the Xeno Eggs and neither does the Deacon. This is not to say that what ever happened before, during of after the LV 223 Outbreak that killed off the Engineers could had been responsible. The Worm seems a native Organism, as you pointed out the enviroment and its Silca and how Worms behave as far as Parthenogenesis and shed skin do add up, but the Hammerpedes and Deacon i dont think could link to the Eggs... However just because these events in Prometheus happened in 2093, does not mean that the events have not occurred before i.e previous Worms got infected with Go around the time of the LV 223 Oubreak some 200 years ago. All hints to me suggest the Space Jockey was there before the Outbreak and that the results of the Urns are a re-weaponizing of the deadly Egg Cargo... Or they are after as a result of some experiment via the Goo. And Ridley has answered the debate about the Eggs and Space Jockey and that the event would have occurred some 1800-2200 years prior to the events of Prometheus give or take.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-27-2013 10:09 AM
Double Post can a Mod Please Remove..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-27-2013 10:13 AM
Double Post can a Mod Please Remove..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ruhaniya

Veteran MemberMemberOvomorphOct-27-2013 1:51 PM
I agree! Shaw shouldn't be the pilot of the derelict. I think Giger depicts her final destiny here: [img]http://www.wallcg.com/images/2012/12/h-r-giger-HD-Wallpapers.jpg[/img]

The First Child

MemberOvomorphOct-27-2013 2:25 PM
If her final destiny is not to become the Space Jockey. Then Shaw could possibly, just like the sacrificial engineer, sacrifice herself to create a species. The first movie was about creation. The second will be about death. The third will be about rebirth.

Necronom 4

MemberNeomorphOct-27-2013 2:45 PM
@BigDave; Quote "@Necronom 4 Yes correct point about that Shaw cant be the SJ as the SJ had been killed for thousands of years, but in your other post you indicate that only the Worms can lay Egg, and sound like you hope that explains no Queen.." Where did I say that? I stated that the worms laying the eggs is ONE possibility, out of a few possibilities. I never once stated that the worms laying the eggs is the ONLY way!!! Sorry bud but I don't want to be miss-quoted. :) Also, you said "The Worm seems a native Organism, as you pointed out the enviroment and its Silca and how Worms behave as far as Parthenogenesis and shed skin do add up, but the Hammerpedes and Deacon i dont think could link to the Eggs..." Is it impossible that some worms could have evolved into hammerpedes during the outbreak 2000 years ago after being exposed to the black stuff? They may have layed eggs and then they were placed in the egg silo? Hammerpedes may even have made their way to the juggernaut from ALIEN, whilst it was still on LV223 and then layed eggs there. I'm not saying, that's what DEFO happened. I'm saying that it is a possibility. :-)

The poster was good though!

 

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-27-2013 4:49 PM
@Necronom 4 Hope we never got wires crossed.... ;) I never said or meant to imply, that you meant the Worms was the only way those eggs could have got on board or be created. Seems i may had miss read what you said, your point was about the Worms and Eggs Cycle as a explanation to the Eggs, i.e Hammerpede... In fact just checked where i thought you said that, in how it appeared you hope for another answer than the Queen... i know in a joke about way as you know chances are the Queen will remain canon, just as we may have to accept that our Space Jockey is no 15ft+ Elephantine Alien Creature... However the "Worm only being the Egg laying remark" i do owe you a apology .... SORRY! As the quote was from meshuggah lol My internet was playing up early on so thats why i may have thought about that comment so really my comment was regards to meshuggah's comment not yours lol... My internet was that bad it would not let me access this site proper and thats hence why i posted same thing 3 times as on my side the web page just hung lol.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-27-2013 4:58 PM
Anyway while i started a debate with you on that matter, that was a comment i was commenting on not made by you. In my reply i did say at the bottom, that while we can kinda rule out the Hammerpedes we saw in Prometheus leading to the Xeno, due to the timeline... I did say we can not rule out something similar happened in the past, which you then in last reply touched up on also. You see we can assume those Worms was never brought in from outside and even if they was, all indications are they was a Species that had already been and may been native to LV 223 for years. Now we saw a few Worms get covered in Goo, and the transformation was we saw Two Hammerpedes that was identical. Thus those same Worms exposed to the same Goo would most like make the same Hammerpede, if they was ever introduced to that Goo again, or in the past. So yes there is a possibility that indeed Worms could have gotten infected with Goo in the past, it can not be 100% ruled out. And we can not rule it out or even prove that a Hammerpede could gave birth to Eggs that could mutate into the Xeno Eggs. It can not be ruled out... So yes it remains a possible if not exactly plausible explanation. And Lindeloffs comments could hold some weight to that. The thing that bugs me (pardon the Cameron Pun) is Ridley and Lindeloff dont seem on the same page as far as explanations they seem like two fans who like us saw the movie and made own conclusions. As Ridley has hinted a different things, one thing of interest was if he did a Alien 5 he would have gone back to the Alien Homeworld.... now is that a indication that LV 223 is not that place and Paradise is not that place? Could this be that the Xeno comes from somewhere else and is it something the Engineers found and then experimented on... Only way for sure to find out is if its shown on Film in a future movie because if it is not then well all bets are still on....

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Necronom 4

MemberNeomorphOct-27-2013 6:33 PM
@BigDave; No problem buddy! I misread people's comments sometimes, and you're spot on, I would like to see any other explination for the eggs other than being from the queen! If the hammerpedes' layed eggs and those eggs (unmatured fetus') were exposed to the black stuff, what would be the outcome? What would they look like? My guess is that they would look slightly different to the hammerpede's.

The poster was good though!

 

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-28-2013 6:19 AM
The thing is Aliens like or not has been done, and i guess as far as Canon goes the general idea, is that a Queen can lay Eggs exactly the same as those on the Derelict. That is not to say those on the Derelict was laid by a Queen, and i dont mean what ever Chest Busted from the Space Jockey, but i mean Orginally a Queen could have laid Eggs the Engineers or Xenos controlled by them then place in the Cargo Hold. But there could also be another way those Eggs Came to be. Maybe we will find out, but i am not sure Ridley is going to rule out a Queen, or at very least that where ever these Eggs come from a Queen Xeno can either come from one under certain conditions or that one can be produced via another process. Indeed my ideal thinking of the Egg Morph scene that would tie in with Aliens and make perfect sense for the Franchise was that a Xeno can Morph a Host into a Larger Egg that would develop into a Queen..... it would make perfect sense for the procreation because the Alien Xeno would then had produced a Queen from Bret and Dallas and this Queen would then be able to lay Egg after Egg thus better procreate the species. But as far as how these Eggs Came to be or indeed how did the Queens maybe come to be if not a case of via Egg Morph... well indeed yes they could have derived from the Worms... Maybe in the past the Engineers accidentally came across a Hamerpede created by the Goo, or maybe they have in past tested the Goo on the Worms..... We just cant be sure..... There is so many riddles and puzzles, and the Murals and Fresco's seem to indicate something else... The Deacon looks similar to the one at the end but also looks like the Xeno, the Face Hugers on Mural again look like something thats crossed between both Shaws Baby Trillobite and the Traditional Face Huger. Maybe it hints there is a common Ancestor to both the Xeno and the Stuff in the Urns... Hopefully we get some clues but i am afraid i dont think we would get enough to be able to suggest where, what and how and thus rule out or prove any theory. I dont think Ridley will touch upon the Xeno inc Alien one, i think clues are that the Deacon and Hamerpedes are a result of the Goo and a Evolution. But yes the Mural shows a similar Deacon and Face Huger Type Organism was known to the Engineers thousands of years ago.... The Fresco even had traditional Xeno and Egg, so maybe they was known.... However how the Traditional ones came about.... could be left a Mystery but maybe we would find out instead about the Organism that preceded them? Unless Ridley hints that Organism was the Xeno..... and the Deacons are a attempt to recreate them or a experiment to create a Hybrid we just cant be sure. So for some, there may never be a explanation to how the Eggs on the Derelict came to be, or clues may point to nothing but a Xeno Queen. It maybe hard for some to accept.... But its been done as Canon, and we just dont know if the franchise will alter that.... Just like Prometheus, all clues sugest that the Space Jockey is a Humanoid in a Space Suit, maybe some dont like the look of the Engineers and would hope latter movies to show the Space Jockey as something else... Maybe it wont and we have to accept the Space Jockey in Alien is just the same as the Engineer.... only just twice the size and we may never get a explanation as to why such a size difference... So to be honest the whole franchise as been tampered with and its like a Story being told and passed on from generation to generation and each generation changes the story in parts. So we may not get what the Star Beast Script suggested and indeed Gigers work... or maybe we would?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Necronom 4

MemberNeomorphOct-28-2013 6:43 AM
Hello BigDave; I agree! I can't see Ridley ruling the queen out of the universe. As you said above, it has been done now, it is already a part of the franchise, like it or not, and just because a queen does exist, that doesn't necesserally mean that a queen layed THOSE eggs in the silo. My guess is that the queen is like an anomaly. She isn't supposed to come out of the process. She's very rare. Like when you get a malteaser that's all chocolate :)

The poster was good though!

 

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