Alien Movie Universe

number of crewmembers - plot holes?

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galacticnorth

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 3:33 AM
I see a surprising number of ppl listing how we dont see the demise/fate of all the crewmembers as a plothole :) I think this is the best indication so far of why the negative faction on this site is having major problems with this movie. There is no consensus that a movie should show the fate of all ppl listed in vessel data, town population signs etc. What these ppl are looking for is the second coming of Alien so that they can count all the passengers and keep track of their untimely demise. I am yet to see anyone raise a real plot hole that goes against the internal logic of the movie. Would be fascinating to see one. The same way it would be fascinating to see how Alien is a 'deeper' movie than Prometheus :)
37 Replies

ShinobiX9X

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 3:47 AM
Reading about the "possible" sequels. It really wants to get closer to chariots of the gods doesn't it?

Slipp_Digby

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 3:57 AM
Plothole How does David infecting Holloway help him to achieve Weylands objective for the mission, which he states is to meet the engineers and ask them for the secret of immortality? Nobody has answered this yet......Despite it being raised many times. It's purely to drive the shaw squid sequence. With regards to the crew, the number of crew who are lost without ever being introduced is a problem. We don't know them and so we meet their deaths in much the same manner as a henchman being dispatched by James bond. We don't care about them. the question is, why bother including them if their death has no impact on us, the viewers and is extraneous to the plot. Baffling.

The High Priest

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 4:44 AM
@Galcatic North Dude, I think you need to respond to this thread, both Slipp_Digby and myself have given you very specific plotholes. Do you see these? do you understand how badly they jar?

private problem

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 4:12 AM
crew is something like 4 mercs and 4 mechanics .i merc died via engineer .at least 4 deaths via fifield . that leaves 3 ? is it worth bothering about ?:)

The High Priest

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 4:12 AM
Perfectly put Slipp. I am not understanding why people are not seeing such major flaws in a story as being problematic??? Even more worrying - I am not understanding how people are not SEEING these major flaws??? Rose tinted glasses? Ignorance is bliss? Perplexing?

The High Priest

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 4:14 AM
@private problem.... 130 million dollar Sci-Fi epic covering Big Questions..... A 2 year intense marketing campaign Ridley Scott returning to the Space Jockeys. YES! It bloody is worth bothering about. Obviously you accept mediocrity. You have just said as much.

The High Priest

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 4:17 AM
Plothole Shaws gives birth to a NEW LIFEFORM never seen before by mankind. Bursts into the room with (stand ins) Weyland, David. Nobody even blinks an eyelid - In a previous scene they had her conatined and where all wearing nucleur protection suits when she escaped??????? Utterly Baffling????

private problem

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 4:23 AM
its just a film , you seem to want to force your opinions . my opinions are worth just as much as anyone elses ,no more no less. if you look for excellence all the time ,you will be disappointed . i dont think this is an average film :)

Leebalien1980

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 4:26 AM
I believe a ridiculous amount of footage has been cut from this movie as to the reason why there's so many plot holes it's untrue! I bet the true version of this film is like 3hrs plus long gore violence and all! Hope one day we get to see it!

StringerBell

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 4:28 AM
I'm sure every Yay-sayer and Glory merchant will have, every explaination for every single plot hole, and dismiss people like me as a hater and not seeing the bigger picture, having not understand the subtle edits and deep meaningful words the script lays out. again, each to their own. If this does it for you. then fantastic. Ridley and co and done a great job entertaining you. for me, no one, can justify the laziness of the script that propels main characters in doing random stuff. I've written some of plot holes before,so no need for the repeat. and this just keeps going round and round. Someone told me this ain't a place for reviews, yet in the next 48 hrs i'm sure this place will explode, and hopefully i can engage in debating the pros and cons. But what it won't do, for me anyway, is convince me. yes, a lot of things and scenes to like. But the plot holes are staggering.

Slipp_Digby

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 4:34 AM
@private We are responding to a thread which basically is imposing the view that criticism is wrong because not everyone has to be accounted for, and that no potholes are at odds with the internal logic of the film. I have countered this with two specific points. Why not respond to the topic?

galacticnorth

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:06 AM
First of all like in most movies i dont care to find out what happens to every little character mentioned in something like a 'vessel status'. We know some are killed by Fifield and we know the engineer kills one....i dont need a detailed report :) Plot holes: We dont know what Weyland tells David. "Try harder" is a very general statement. You dont have to be a rocket scientist however to figure out that David suspects the black goo is a bioformer and that a natural part of 'try harder' might be to experiment with engineer biotech and find out what it does. I suspect Weyland and David consider the bioformer/goo a possible agent of rejuvenation. Giving the goo to a test-subject makes perfect sense.....Did IQ's just drop sharply around here or are you so bitterly disappointed about now owning Ridley Scotts visions? Shaw's baby.....she is shot full of all kinds of medicaments and painkillers and the room spins. She isnt able to keep herself on her feet. I doubt she has a coherent thought at the time she crashes to her knees. The last thing we see the 'baby' looks dead after the medpod freeze has done its job. David knows she was impregnated, and he understands what she has done. My theory is that he considers the baby dead (shaw came away alive) and will autopsy it later. By this time however both he and Weyland know that the bioformer doesnt rejuvenate....Davis id busybusy busy with Weyland awake.

Cypher

Co-AdminMemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:07 AM
Just try and keep it civil guys ;-)
[url=http://www.robocopmovie.net/][img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/NewRoboBanner.jpg[/img][/url] "Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."

The High Priest

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:09 AM
As per a previous comment I posted. Ignorance is bliss Rose Tinted Glasses Denial....

TheNextLV426

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:24 AM
What about the two medics that were taking Shaw back to cryo. They were never seen or heard of again. You'd think that they might have gone looking for her or raised the alarm. The problem with the movie is even though it does raise some interesting questions, it fails to deal with the small stuff.

ShinobiX9X

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:29 AM
unconcious and crashed with the ship?

TheNextLV426

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:39 AM
They were unconscious for a hell of a long time then. Several hours must have passed by the time Shaw had her chat, Weyland practiced with his legs, the drive over etc etc

thefacehead

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:41 AM
Galacticnorth how exactly does David know Shaws pregnant? Why does he not make more of an effort to keep Holloway on the ship to experiment? Presumes the squidythingy is dead? Come on!!! This is one of the main problems I have with this film, the answers to these and a lot more questions are only answered by guess work.

Slipp_Digby

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:46 AM
@galacticnorth You haven't even attempted to answer the question at all. I'd suggest you read it, consider it and then respond rather than throw ad Homs about.. Weyland trains David in language, and is woken immediately that a live engineer is found. He says his intention clearly. When they are setting out on the third visit to the temple they are uninterested in shaw, and no one even remember what happened to holloway. The effects of the black goo are a side plot and serve no purpose to what follows, except to enable set pieces and the engineers death, and the Xeon reveal. How does infecting holloway advance the aim of meeting a live engineer? If they want to experiment with things they find why are the scientists on board capable of doing this limited to David and shaw's ad hoc attempts? The way in which David infects holloway could infect the whole crew, including weyland. Why does he infect him with something which could have unknown effects.There is no logic at all. If David and Weyland are willing to infect holloway and allow shaw to possibly die a horrid death, this moves thrm both into sadistic murder asshole territory, why bother with being subtle? Why not use the Mercs to subdue them? they clearly have an objective which makes everything else a secondary consideration, including peoples lives. Remember these are the people weyland believed enough to fly for 2 years with 3days life left in him to find what? This is where good characters with clear motivation would have help this film.

ShinobiX9X

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:48 AM
nextlevel i just think about something. David (thus weyland?) know Shaw can't have babies. and then she is pregnant. that's what weyland wants, to live.

galacticnorth

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:51 AM
the face head: david sees shaw is pregnant during his investigation of her. I presumed the squidthingy was dead...it looks dead after the freezing.

galacticnorth

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:54 AM
slipp digby: if you pay that little attention to the movie howcan you complain so much about it? Weylands goal was not to meet a live engineer. His goal was to change his 'longevity'. Of course they think the bioformer is a possible means of rejuvenation....they would have to think very very untraditionally NOT to consider this possibility and test it out.

TheNextLV426

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:55 AM
The setup for the baby scene was poor too. Scene 1) oh you have a medpod that can perform any kind of surgery Scene 2) I can't have babies Scene 3) your 3 months pregnant

galacticnorth

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 5:56 AM
slippdigby: as for sadism in David. David show several unhealthy personality traits (unrelated to our discussion). Some of his digs at Shaw and Holloway does reveal a desire to hurt them. Particularly his hint at delight at Shaw losing her faith.

galacticnorth

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 6:01 AM
thenextlv426: were you asleep during Alien as well? 1) the medpod cant perform any kind of surgery. it can perform practically any kind of surgery and it is calibrated for a male patient (Weyland). 2) and 3) You might have noticed in Prometheus that the biotechnology of the engineers was highly advanced and didnt exactly follow human conventions. What ? It made shaw fertile again? It shaped life on entire planets throught the break down of an individual engineers DNA? It morphed small worms into 3 foot long penis/vagina variations? It makes a xeno onboard the Nostromo grow way to fast and way to big compared in too short a time in the wrong environment. Molecular acid for blood? what what what? ! :)

thefacehead

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 6:01 AM
Galacticnorth, I've only seen it once so I can't remember him investigating her. So if he knew it was inside her he must have just wanted her dead? Or be waiting for something to happen at least? That makes sense but why not address this further? Why not be there all the time (like Ash who is virtually always in the lab during the impregnation)? If his priority is Weyland why not give us a scene of him waking him up so we know he has other priorities? This is my point, they tried to put SO much into a 2hour film that they rush from sequence to sequence without explaining what's going on or giving ANYTHING that happens any importance!

galacticnorth

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 6:17 AM
thefacehead: well you dont have to see it more than once to remember david examining her. It is after all David that finds out she is pregnant and reveals it to her and the audience. I dont need someone to spoon feed me what is going on....and i certainly dont need an ending that makes me happy in any way. I enjoy movies that leave some actual thinking to the audience. Mulholland drive is perfect...it leave you with a mystery wrapped in an enigma. Prometheus leaves the audience with several riddles and its not very interested in trying to reveal them. What does David say to the engineer? :) The gripe alot of people have with Lost is that it doesnt end the way they wanted it to end. What kind of attitude to life and art is that really? :)

thefacehead

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 6:25 AM
I don't want to be spoon feed either and I am sorry I don't have a photographic memeory regarding the scene with David (it was about 1am I was tired). I will watch it again, okay? Happy now lol. You will just have to accept that people have a different view in things to you mate and stop jumping down peoples throats. Lost? Really? Didn't think an arguement for Prometheus being brilliant and mysterious would include such a bad make-it-up-as-you-go-along TV programme

galacticnorth

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 6:30 AM
thefacehead: I'm not a fan of lost just so we are clear on that :) It was however very well written and hooked a lot of people and spawned A LOT of debate. I merely find it incredible that some fans of the series make derogatory remarks about it because it didnt end they way they would have liked it to end. It's a horrid way to look at art and artists.

thefacehead

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2012 6:39 AM
It's all subjective art is subjective, you can't have a go at people for not liking things that's life. I am more of a Soprano's man and thought the ending to that was genius! I Love Sunshine but not quite sure on the last act, I am not gunna phone Danny Boyle up and have a go at him about it, nore if I met him would I start licking his ass just because he's an artist! Right I am outta here, thanks for the chit chat.
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