whiskuz
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 11:35 AMSo what do we know about the larger plot elements? A month or so ago, the comments from the cast, Damon, and Ridley still seemed a little scattered, but now I think we can really start to narrow things down. Here are some quotes I think reveal a lot about the larger plot elements. I know most of you have probably read them already, but bear with me. My theory about the blue guys is below.
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You've talked about the idea of these post-apocalyptic films having been done to death. Is Prometheus your way of going in the opposite direction and wondering about the beginning of life?
[i]It is, and I’ve got to check [for spoilers] very carefully here, but it is about the beginning of life and ’what if’. It’s a giant ’what if'. Has this ball that we’re sitting on right now been around here for three billion years or one billion? Either way, it’s a long f---ing time. It’s only our kind of arrogance that says ”We’re the first ones.”
Are we the first hominids? I really, really, really doubt it. In recent memory or legend we keep talking about wonderful, weird things such as Atlantis – what is that?[/i]
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[i]It’s basically about trying to find out if there was intervention in the birth of civilisation on planet Earth by other beings, which we come to know as Engineers, and whether they had a master plan in mind for u[/i]s.
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[i]Certainly, it makes an argument that will move away Darwinism, let’s just say![/i]
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What does the title mean for you?
[i]The story of Prometheus is the idea that if you’re given a gift from the gods, do not abuse it and do not think you can compete. He stole fire and they had his entrails torn out everyday in perpetuity by an eagle as a punishment. Every night they'd repair and then the eagle would come back in the morning and rip his liver and his kidneys out again. It’s perpetual purgatory. Basically, don’t f--- around with gods.[/i]
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[i]What if you could meet God but God turned out to be the Devil?[/i]
So, I think we can draw some pretty certain conclusions from these quotes.
Here's my shot at them.
1. We are not the first hominids. There was one or many civilizations on earth that existed before us. This also hints at the possibility of the other races that existed on earth having been destroyed by the "gods,” possibly for the same reason our destruction is threatened in this movie. I keep thinking about the second Matrix when you find out the destruction and rebirth of the human colony is cyclical. This is where I would bring in a concept from a previous post of mine concerning the temple. I think the temple is designed to adapt to whatever creature enters it via DNA analysis. Hence the breathable air, human carving, and the eventual change of the walls you see in the preview. Also, the blue guys appear to be hominids, right? What if they're a previous race from earth that reached the temple and was destroyed by the SJs, but some survived in the temple somehow? Or, what if the blue guys are the gifting race and they left earth a long time ago for some reason, but passes on the gift of intelligence and instructions on how to find them to another hominid (us) before they left?
2. Mankind, and possibly the civilizations that existed before us, was "given" something by a more advanced race. Given the quote about Darwin, my guess is that they intervened in the evolution of man to move us toward intelligence.
3. There will likely be some greater purpose for this gift that shows us to be an insignificant part of a much larger process and the gifting race will see us as a part of that process, nothing more. The adaptable temple is part of this process.
4. We do something that doesn't sit well with them. This may be as harmless as attaining a certain level of intelligence or attaining certain capabilities, or it may be something we’ve done related to the temple. It may also have something to do with the actions of Weyland and Yutani, which since Alien have played a sinister role.
What do you guys think? Can we say with any amount of certainty that even one of these four points will be part of the larger story?
centrosphere
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 12:12 PMI didn´t know the talk about previous hominids; thanks to bring that, whiskuz. It throws some new directions to the plot, if it´s not only a decoy.
The problem is, I can´t see the rationale of some previous advanced civilization leaving Earth; to me there is only one scenario where this could hold: post-Singularity civilization that leaved organic bodies and live "in silica" (or something like that). But this seems not to go well with Scott, in my opinion; even Blade Runner´s world was not the classic cyberpunk future.
Biehn_Bandit
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 12:12 PMWe can say with no amount of certainty, but all these points are plausible. The parallels to 2001 are only going to get stronger the more we uncover, that film being one of the defining films in RS's life.
There is imagery we've seen so far that suggests to me to believe we steal something, a physical object, I mean besides the jockey head. I'm leaning towards that kind of simpler answer for the events surrounding the Prometheus mission and crew. The ideas about creation and evolutoin presented throughout the film will be where any complexity is situated.
Cementhead
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 12:21 PMWhiskuz I am right with you on the Blue men being original humanoids on earth. Especially as I think the SJ's have not been revealed and will not be until the film is released. I would be up for this scenario of a link between us and the Blue humanoids (Titans) and some sort of retribution delivered on us by the Gods. That sounds more exciting a plot to me!
artyoh
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 12:25 PMOMG!......... please, no goofy atlantean/lost knowledge nonsense in this movie! The record reflects that we clearly aren't the first hominids on Earth, but we[i] are[/i] the first to attain anything remotely close to our present level of technology. There's zero tangible evidence for any other conclusion. No pseudo-science fiction, puhleeeze!
Jedijohnryan
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 1:12 PMI totally agree with artyoh! Let's leave it to the suspense of the movie. Whiskuz, nice attempt to the explore the plot and make sense of this all but I think you are way off. We will all know the truth once the movie reveals such and I can't wait to tell a lot of folks, "I told you so!"
The blue men are not from Earth. They are a much more advanced civilization than our primitive one. Yes, "primitive" one. Check out my post under the link exploring the Age of the Derelict ship where I shed a lot of light on things. But it's only my guestimate. Any, yes, this planet is the original Alien movie planet, ship and SJ.
Necrofan
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 1:49 PMI am a fan of the idea that intelligent life on Earth has evolved, and subsequently been wiped out by one means or another, several times. Maybe even farther back than the fossil record can show. That, to me, is fascinating. And would fit in well within this story without stepping on too many canon-toes.
whiskuz
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 1:54 PMAppreciate all the comments. And I see all your points.
I will say that Ridley appears to believe that there could have been intelligent life on earth sometime in the 1-3 billion year life of the earth. He says it in several different interviews. Something else to consider is the fact that it also appears the "removal" of that life could be an element of the story and explain why we find no evidence.
Finally, I have to say I think the comment about pseudo science is silly in a forum about alien movies!!!!!!! I understand the difference between science fiction and hard science fiction, but Alien was not hard science fiction, neither was Blade Runner. I understand your concern though.
TheNextLV426
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 2:04 PM@artyoh I'm with you. If Xenos or SJs are time travelers or from Atlantis I'll weep
whiskuz
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 2:16 PMBTW, the more disagreement, the better, in my opinion. So keep it coming.
draekus
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 2:24 PMWell the posts in this thread obviously prove that no matter what you do, you can't please everyone.
Not sure why everyone's against the "SJ's are from Atlantis and are ancient Homonids" theory. I've said it before...I don't mInd either way as long as Ridley and the studio deliver a good movie. I guess it's best to keep an open mind until the movie is released.
artyoh
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 2:34 PMNo, "Alien" wasn't "hard" sci-fi, but it wasn't a fluffy marshmallow of completely speculative silliness, either. The law of averages strongly suggests that there's other life out there, but there's zero tangible evidence for high-tech terrestrial civilizations completely lost to history and the fossil record ( which goes back literally [i]billions[/i] of years. ) I agree with Biehn_Bandit, that this movie is looking like Scotts' twisted take on '"2001." SJ tech may end up "evolving" one or more crew-members, but if that happens, it will be for a much darker purpose than the star-child, IMO. I don't believe the SJ ( or crew-member ) is heading back to Earth in order to wipe us out. There are far worse fates, than that.
Famished
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 2:37 PMA recursive evolution is not time travel. It's more akin to the idea that history repeats itself. Nobody here is popping into the future or past.
That said, the ideas inherent to theoretical physics, the nature of time, are every bit as much hard science as aliens and FTL, which you already have going on in this film. Just because it doesn't jibe with your taste for science fiction, doesn't make it any less valid as an idea device for the film.
Again, however, within the narrative of the film, these answers will likely be ambiguous and still debatable, so I'd imagine we'll have similar factions of thought even after the film is released. You'll be led to your own conclusions.
whiskuz
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 2:52 PMActually, there is a lot of evidence that there were cultures with far greater technology (nuclear reactors/weapons, dry cell batteries, and the ability to manipulate stone in ways we still can't) than the current paradigm suggests [i]within[/i] our reign as the dominant species on the planet. And Ridley obviously buys into the ancient alien explanation.
Before that, yeah not so much. But seriously, what would be left of a civilization that existed 1.5 billion years ago? I'm asking because I'm not an expert in this area. Do you know with certainty that there would be evidence we should have discovered by now? Explain, I'm interested.
Unfortunately for the fans that feel like you guys, Ridley has already said this is a film about the origins of life on earth. That doesn't mean it's a take on 2001, it just means it deals with the same subject matter, which is pretty universal. I think what makes it interesting is that we know a lot more about the universe, previous civilizations, and carbon based life now than we did when 2001 was written. I think weaving that new information into a science fiction movie by Ridley and Damon sounds awesome. I am curious to know what you guys feel would make this a good movie, but I'm starting a new thread because I think it's a good question.
thefacehead
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 2:59 PMI think we need to take it back to basics and speculate the SJ. IMO the chaired SJ (from Alien, that is given a LOT of screen time (for a mere prop) is of vital importance and with this film tying in to Alien in the last 15 mins (Ridders words not mine) we need to be looking at this dude and........
A) are you in the SJ from Alien?
B) if not, why not?
If you, like me, do believe it's THE SJ from Alien then IMO I think this may actually be a crew member from Prometheus. Wouldn't it be ironic that Peter Weyland was in fact the SJ mutated? Maybe it's HIS distress signal that HIS company's mining ship is sent to rescue/discover??
artyoh
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 3:02 PMDude, there isn't an iota of evidence........of any kind whatsoever.....that there was [i]any[/i] form of life on land, more complex than [i]algae[/i], 1.5 billion years ago.......and it's kinda tough to have an advanced civilization without fire.....which is rather difficult to start under water.
.....and "nuclear reactors'?!?!
*blink-blink* mkay, I give up.
Biehn_Bandit
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 3:05 PMIt is a take on 2001 if it falls in line with Whiskuz point no. 2. If this is a story Ridley has had on his mind for years, I don't doubt for a second that the impact of 2001 on his formative mind is part of the drive behind it.
artyoh
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 3:07 PMI don't have a problem with the notion of ETs meddling with our DNA, but pretty please, leave "atlanteans" out of it.
whiskuz
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 3:22 PMThe great pyramid of Giza is the only Egyptian pyramid that isn't obviously designed for humans to move around in. Nobody really knows why. However, recently engineers have found evidence that the pyramid was designed to mix two chemicals, which are both available nearby, to produce gas that releases microwaves. The set up of the chambers is perfect for it and the residue which is a by product of that reaction is all over the larger chamber where the two chemicals would have been poured in to mix. The microwaves would have shot out two horizontal shafts and out into space. Its just a theory, but the point is we really don't know nearly as much as we think about the past. I'm not saying I believe that, but I'm open to any theory that can explain the physical evidence.
It's funny to me that we have sites all over the world that run completely contrary to the current paradigm regarding ancient civilizations level of knowledge and technology, but any explanation that doesn't fit into that erroneous paradigm is "silly."
I'll finish by saying that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
whiskuz
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 3:22 PMBiehn_Bandit
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 3:30 PMI've said this before here, but never underestimate modern man's ability to underestimate the ability of earlier civilizations. Just because we can't fathom it, doesn't mean they couldn't.
whiskuz
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 3:38 PMYep, I agree 100%. A lot of science fiction short stories are about alien civilizations that discover technology in sequences different than our own.
Imagine how different things might be if we hadn't developed computer technology when we did, but stumbled onto cold fusion instead. That's what I love about good hard sci-fi. It asks questions like that and gives plausible answers. Not that I don't like the more imaginative stuff too, but hard sci-fi has given me some great realizations over the years.
Love the disagreement though.
"thereyouareJonesy"
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 4:26 PMHi
Very interesting read this post lots of stuff to think about.
Regarding the intelligent / civilization before us stuff, i think its fair to say that if there was there would be evidence, when we are gone there will be lots of stuff to say to whatever follows that we were here. Even if all evidence was somehow wiped from the face of the planet what about all the stuff in orbit and pottering about the solar-system ? rover and probes on the other planets too. Surely we would have found things like that.
we have records of fossils like Masons Charnia which is around 610 millions years old and nothing much prior to that, these are the roots of complex life on earth so imagining stuff before that is pushing it a bit.
"thereyouareJonesy"
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 4:35 PMOh yeh, we didnt stumble onto Computer technology we developed it and improved it generation by generation. Abacus then cogs and gears in weaving machines then not much for a bit then Bill Gates then Ping !! your using the offspring right now as am i. I think its right to say that cold fusion or any other high energy technology would be unknowable without computers so one must follow the other skipping isnt going to work.
Heustess
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 4:49 PM"Are we the first hominids? I really, really, really doubt it. In recent memory or legend we keep talking about wonderful, weird things such as Atlantis – what is that?"
Seriously you should all read Doris Lessing's Canopus in Argos series.
Synthrimonger94
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 5:23 PM@Whiskuz
I disscussed this possibility in one of my previous posts
http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2965
thefacehead
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 5:30 PM'I like the pretty lights!'
mlb127
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 5:46 PMHas anyone noyiced that the full appearance of the Big Blue SJ's are restricted to the orrery room?They might night even exist any more,they could be a Hologram.And why isn't the Blue SJ we see pulling up the chair not in one of the suits we see hanging?
And I agree that the Atlantean theme would be lame.Ridley goes to his marquee achievement as an artist and only copies a myth? Bay and Emerich would do that but noy Ridley(hopefully!!).
centrosphere
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 7:00 PMThe topic is very interesting.
Maybe you don´t know, but there is no other species on Earth whose individuals are as big as humans living in such big numbers as us around the globe. This means that the premium mother Nature pays us for our competitivity in the darwinian race is: huge human biomass around.
This means that if the Earth ever was home to another intelligent species in the deeps of time, we should be able to see their fossils. But we aren´t. This probably happens because there wasn´t other intelligent species.
BTW this is one of the more disputated variables in the Drake Equation, the equation that try to stablish the number of advanced civilizations around in the Universe: the probability of intelligence arising. The time lag between emergence of life on earth and the rise of intelligent life (us) seems to correlates well with the fact that the Universe seems relatively empty (there are no signals from space - nobody is broadcasting us).
artyoh
MemberOvomorphApr-08-2012 8:05 PM@Centrosphere
This is from an unfinished original sci-fi screenplay I was fooling around with several years ago: "Intelligent species that employ technology as their primary survival strategy may represent an aberration…an evolutionary blunder down a dark, dead end alley…… that would have chilling implications…… It might be the general rule that technological civilizations nearly always fry out like an overloaded fuse, instead of burning slowly and steadily like a candle…. We already know the light of knowledge can be applied either way.