Ash....the Company.....and Prometheus

Yes indeed why wait 37 years? In Alien 3 they arrive in a matter of days as soon as they get the news, with all the excitement of a 7 year old celebrating his birthday It seems unrealistic that they would be so ill prepared as to use a commercial freighter, when everywhere else in the series they are completely ready with doctors, military etc To be honest I don't think Ash knew anything...he was merely speculating, based on the research he had been carrying out into the organism. His lack of knowledge is evident in several scenes, slicing the facehugger leg, preparing a flamethrower (which would have killed it if Dallas got lucky) and many more.... I don't think anyone from Prometheus made it back, either that or the coordinates or some sort of data is lost

But the fact remains......that the ship was redirected to collect an organism. From what appears to only be a signal........not a siganal that says "Please help ive crashlanded my ship and i only have a ball called Wilson to talk to". No, a siganal that the company takes to read as "OOOOOO look what we have for you to come and collect.....it would make a great weapon....if you can train it"

in that case I believe they loose the coordinates of the derelict...A short range beacon is activated with some sort of encryption the company DO know about...when the Nostromo picks up the beacon signal, immediately they know that was the planet

There are so many loop holes in the Alien series they should have named the ship Cheese built by the Swiss thus Swiss Cheese. Why didn't Ash just freeze him.

I think Ash using the word "son" is just a poetic license. It sounds nicer than "Kane's infant" or "Kane's daughter" or "Kane's nasty lil Basterd!" or "Kane's monstrosity" or "Kane's .." You get the point.

double post why this keeps happening to me?

There are loop holes in real life, if you bother to look for them. That being said, I would speculate that the Company had incomplete information gathered 37 years earlier. They knew the organism was something formidable, but were ignorant to its true nature. Admittedly the Nostromo was ill equipped to deal with this creature. Perhaps their proximity to the signal, and their inconspicuity made them the ideal ship to take a sample, in secret. Could the orders to take the specimen have come from a covert faction of the Company? I agree that Ash was probably speculating, and maybe more, after all, Ash was a very advanced computer capable of precise analysis but he also had something of the poet in him, as well as personality and humor.

From what I gathered and took from all of the information in "Alien", most of the things that you mention are pretty easily explainable. If Prometheus takes place 37 years before Alien, then why did Weyland Corp. wait so long to investigate, right? There could be a number of possible explanations. - perhaps the company simply did not know what to do once the Prometheus did not return. We can assume that the company was getting some sort of report on what was going on during Prometheus' journey and encounter, but we can't say that for certain. Weyland may not have wanted any reporting, and he may have wanted it to be a complete secret until they were either finished with their voyage, or until something went wrong and then David or ship would report back to company. - even if the company did get a report, we don't know what it consisted of, or how much information was reported back. So for whatever reason/s, the Weyland-Yutani company did not send another vessel to investigate until 37 years later, in "Alien", with the Nostromo. This leads to your second question... why a commercial towing vehicle, with a refinery rig crew and not experts, with a military ship, or whatever. Again, many possible reasons. - As Ripley stated, the company did not want to sound off any alarms and get regulatory agencies involved. The company wanted to quietly get their hands on whatever lifeform/s or technology/ies were out there. The best way for them to do that in secret... would be for everything to happen by "accident", or by chance. Thus, they replaced the regular science officer with Ash, at one of their stops, just before the Nostromo heads out. - it's possible that the company may have just recently found out something, and therefore set the whole thing up last minute. Or maybe they had it planned for a very long time. I think it's a combination of both. Perhaps they have been getting periodic updates from David, depending on whatever has happened with he and Shaw. Or maybe they have been trying to piece everything together for a very long time. One other thing to keep in mind... at some point in time between "Prometheus" and "Alien", the Weyland company has become Weyland-Yutani. Whatever significance this has or means, it could explain why they waited, what they knew, and many other things. As for the things Ash knows: - it's apparent he knew that they were stopping to investigate the signal. He also knew that the orders stated that whatever was out there, was top priority, and that the rest of the crew was expendable. He also states that the company knew it was a warning. He never says that the company "knew" that there was a life-form there, before they landed. For all we know, Ash could have been sending them all of that information as they were dealing with the situation, on the fly. Then, once they learned from Ash about the ship, the SJ, the eggs, the facehugger, and the alien... they sent Ash the new orders, which were, "bring back life-form", and all other considerations... recinded, or something like that. - so everything that Ash says about the alien, could very well be from his study and observations once they encountered it. There is no indication whatsoever that the company knew anything of the alien, or it's lifecycle. So there you go, there is very little absolute, or concrete information when it comes to certain history and scenarios. And that's what made "Alien" so great, and that's also what makes "Prometheus" great too, the ambiguity, at least IMHO. Hopefully we'll find out more answers to these questions in the sequel/s.

Sometimes I enjoy reading 'book length post'..I just don't want to see every post this long.. "...Weyland-Yutani..." I think this is noticable change that will be addressed hopefully sooner than later.. Industrial spies have already been active...(I suspect)..and who is to say that part of David's memory bank is conect with the rival Yutani.

Hey @cmutt, I think you may have stumbled across something: "...they replaced the regular science officer with Ash, at one of their stops, just before the Nostromo heads out." That's a very good point, which would indicate they knew the Alien was there before the Nostromo ever arrived on LV426, and before they "stumbled" across the warning beacon which supposedly woke them all up. The company would had to have had prior knowledge to have put Ash on that mission to begin with. The real question is how far in advance of the Nostromo's mission did they actually know about it?

"..they "stumbled" across the warning beacon .." As I recall the "Nostromo".was heading home after a mining assignment. If they knew of the Alien' lifeform..when Ash came on board,,do you think Weyland Corp would want the ship to immediatly head out to investigate the warning beacon and do mining later?

At the end of Prometheus the only people who know about the xeno are the audience. And all the audience know about the xeno's ferocious capabilities are from the previous Alien franchise. All Shaw could tell anyone were her own experiences. David knew zip, unless Shaw tells him and she can only tell him about the "trilobite". If the company wanted to capture and use xenos, they would have to know a little about them. Therefore there's a very large chunk of linkage missing which would have to be revealed in a sequel to the prequel. This must be why Sir RS refers to Prometheus giving birth to two sequels.

Sorry, when I entered the above text I missed off this beginning and then couldn't edit it. It's meant to start: Mr Cawley, Sir, you're right on the button.

"space screamer" Thanks, but I'm just pointing out the obvious. We saw Dallas tell Ripley that they replaced the regular science officer with Ash just before they headed out. So yeah, we can safely say that Weyland-Yutani knew EXACTLY what they were doing, and WHY. And you're right, the big question is what did they know? How much did they know? And for how long have they known? That's why I suggested that there is no real concrete answer here, because they could have known everything that took place with the Prometheus, David, and the entire mission. But then again, maybe they didn't. We just don't know. And "xenodochy" makes a very good point in that neither Shaw nor David actually sees the xenomorph. Shaw only sees the trilobite. But again, who's to say that Shaw and David don't encounter the xeno later on, and then the information gets back to the company? Everything goes back to the fact that we just don't know "all" of the details that took place during the Prometheus' mission, nor do we know all of the details of what took place between "Prometheus" and "Alien". That's why I say it's hard to say for certain what, when, or how much the company did, or didn't know. Yeah, they KNEW something... but what? The last minute replacement of Ash indicates to me that it was not planned well in advance for the Nostromo to be the lucky vessel. That says to me that something happened, or some new information came to the company, and they decided to some immediate action... even if it was just to "investigate". Again, that's why I like the stories, and that's why I can't wait for more pieces of the puzzle.

awesome posts everyone!

Here's something else to mull over... Most of us have been under the impression that in the 37 years from the Prometheus mission to the events of "Alien", that the Nostromo was the 1st vessel sent, or the 1st investigative action from the Weyland/Yutani corporation. But we don't know that either. The company could have been doing any number of things during that 37 year period. Of course, we can somewhat assume that they hadn't accomplished much, because they seemed to know very little when they sent the Nostromo and Ash. My guess is that they just had fragments and clues. They probably had bits and pieces of information from the Prometheus mission, and perhaps some other bits of information from events that took place between then and "Alien" (that are unknown to us). (case in point: they somehow knew about the warning beacon on LV-426, although this planet was not involved in the events of the Prometheus mission. Yet it's safe to assume that they knew the beacon was related to Prometheus events in some way, shape, or form.) But IMO, I think they actually knew very little in terms of specifics and details, because as I said, it seems fairly clear that the company did not know very much when they sent the Nostromo. At least that is what we're led to believe. More food for thought.

I like your overall assessment of the situation a lot. So we do know that 1) Ash was deliberately placed on the Nostromo as the company KNEW the ship would be passing close enough to the beacon to investigate and 2) The company wanted everything to look accidental to not arouse suspicion from regulatory agencies. The must have had prior knowledge (obtained during the Prometheus mission or during the 37 years after) and were unable to intentionally send any kind of vessel to LV 426 due to some sort of regulations in place. Perhaps they had to wait for a company vessel to be on a charted course, passing close enough to the planet to allow them to divert it and not have it look like they were intentionally going to the LV 426. The course of the Nostromo returning with it's load of oar happened to take the ship right by the planet, so the company was able to finally seize the opportunity to try and get a hold of the life-form.

Yeah, that's possible, but I don't think the company would wait 5-10 years, much less 37 years, to investigate. Unless they somehow knew, with a good deal of certainty, that there was an organism, or lifeform out there on LV-426. Remember, we're talking about a very powerful company here, with huge amounts of resources and corporate/political influence. They could probably have found ways to send ships out to investigate and bring back data without any problems or hitches. I have a hard time imagining that they'd wait many years, and also wait for one of their regular vessels to be passing the vacinity. I just feel like they had too much money and power to worry and wait. Now if there is an organism, or a lifeform to be brought back... that's probably where the trouble comes into play. Because then they have to risk getting caught smuggling in the organism, bypassing quarantine laws, and thus having to turn over the organism to whatever goverment agency or facility is in charge of that... and then they lose it. And make no mistake, the company wants "whatever is out there" for itself. That's the whole crux of the matter, and that's what makes all of this into such a parlor game... the mysteries. I really need to go back a watch "Alien" again, just to refresh my memory on all of the specific dialogues and facts. Plus, I have a copy of the "Alien Omnibus" book, which was a novelization of the first few movies, by Alan Dean Foster. The book provides a bit more details and dialogues about some things, so it's pretty interesting and helpful. There are just so many different possibilities, so no matter how much we try to analyze and piece things together, we still are just making best guesses. Ridley Scott is ultimately going to be the one who fills in all of the blanks, and provides the pieces of the puzzle/s. For me though, the pleasure and fun is in trying to put together and make sense of what we have now with "Prometheus" and "Alien". I think many of us here probably feel the same way.

Okay, a little more clarification, directly from "Alien". When Ripley overrides the command to get MOTHER to access Special order 937. -------------------------------- Special order 937: Nostromo rerouted to new coordinates. Investigate life form, gather specimen. Priority one, insure return of organism for analysis. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendible. --------------------------------- The "Alien Omnibus" book goes into a few more specifics and details when it comes to these things, but I don't really want to explore them now because I think we have to disregard any information that comes from outside of the actual Ridley Scott films. (ex: the other films, books, etc.) IMO, even the long accepted plot elements from James Cameron's "Aliens" movie should not be taken into consideration either, because Ridley Scott has stated before that although he likes "Aliens", it wasn't necessarily the same direction he would have taken, and it doesn't quite fit in with his vision of the overall story. You know, I read so many post from people talking about all of the various things from the other movies, and the point I'm making is that Ridley Scott may or may not choose to use any of the plot lines or facts from the other films, books, etc.... of which many have become canon to the ALIEN franchise and lore. So for example, the whole idea of the queen alien from "Aliens"... that may not have any connection at all with Ridley's idea's, or his concepts. So he may go in a completely different direction and disregard that whole concept. I don't know that he will or won't, but the point is that we have to kind of disconnect ourselves from ALL of the other various influences, and go strictly with what Ridley Scott himself has given us, which is "Prometheus" and "Alien". Anyhow, given that... there's what we know about Special order 937.

"...And for how long have they known?..." Yes this a good point. The setting for 'Prometheus is thgis century..but how lonmg befiore the start of the movie? With at least two references to years in the (though the movie with Peter O'Toole and the Stephan Stills' song)1960-70's I suspect that the Engineers'/Aliens were well enough known to plan the Promewtheus trip...by developing space travel speeds/enviorments needed for a crew and androids to survive in deep space...with Weyland coming along at thye nright time to pull all the lkements together. So I suggest a pre-prequel that is set in the year 2000..or so to tie in the past..with the Prometheus adventure.

Prometheus happened during the MASS COLONISATION of the local galaxy. I suspect this Prometheus mission was a PRIVATE COVERT DEAL orchestrated by Mr Peter Weyland, so that HE could bring back to mankind 'the key to everlasting life'. There's nothing to say that ANYONE KNEW; you know how compartmentalised and NDA these massive conglomerates are, when they wanna be - man, it's how your intelligence service is founded, on lie and counterlie, suicide and countermurder, story and counterstory. What can the employees of Weyland believe? Maybe Weyland's death was announced DECADES ago? I don't think anyone knew what was on LV-223, it [b]was[/b] just a 'meet daddy' kinda mission, privately orchestrated by Shaw/Holloway and Weyland -- this might be why the 'freelance team' didn't even know why they were there or what their role was. LV-426 was the accident that led to the Alien discovery - it made sense for those long distance trips to have an Artificial Person on board, hell it made sense for AP-only missions. Personally, I don't think there's a HOUDINI-writer who can pull Prometheus out of the crisis left by Lindelof's reckless and unsubstantiatable invention; there are now too many thorns for even the Prince to rescue his Princess. Time for a juicy time travel prank, like the newer Star Trek film.

@Freeplanet "Personally, I don't think there's a HOUDINI-writer who can pull Prometheus out of the crisis left by Lindelof's reckless and unsubstantiatable invention." Hmm, while I do agree with many people that there are some things in the "Prometheus" film that are a bit "haphazard" and "untidy", so to speak... I don't necessarily believe that they ruin the movie, or the story. I too feel that many parts of the movie were "rushed", ESPECIALLY in terms of the character development. That's probably why people don't have much belief in the characters, or a connection to them. I think Ridley has somewhat caved in to the pressure of trying to appease the studios, and therefore he had to keep the film somewhat within the guidelines of the current movie industry trends. Unfortunately, this "dumbing down" process means... - get to the point/action quicker (sacrifice story and character development) - don't make things too complicated (don't make people think too much) - keep the movie under 2hrs and 10min, (for maximum revenues) - try to keep it PG, (for maximum revenues) - put the original "alien" in there somewhere (to satisfy people) - give us plenty of footage for trailers (for max revenues) And again, notice I said Ridley only "somewhat" caved in to those pressures. Obviously he still tried to stick with his guns in some areas. That's why he left so many unresolved questions and mysteries. Anyhow, I think that with a good deal of time and careful consideration, Ridley can easily piece everything together, and tie them up... in a more than satisfactory way. Personally, I don't see any areas where the story is "too messed up", or beyond all hope. ALL the questions and mysteries do NOT have to be resolved, there only needs to be clear and logical connections to everything. But the connections don't necessarily have to be implicit, or shown... as long as they are implied, or at least hinted at, then that's enough to let the audience try to fill in the gaps. I think the stage has been very adequately set, and we've been prepped for more to come. Peace

cmutt, yeah, you mean, "As Alien had its Space Jockey, Prometheus has its BIG HEAD STATUE." So, we're gonna have to wait another THIRTY YEARS to see that there's really an de-trunked ELEPHANT GOD HEAD statue within that, plastered over by Galactic Arrogants -- like they did with the (wet land) Sphinx? :)

"...- keep the movie under 2hrs and 10min, (for maximum revenues.." "..152 min.." The Running time of 'THe Dark Knight' To me it is not so much the length of the movie,,but the quality of the storytelling that would bring in the revenues,,to ensure the completion of the prequell trilogy.. I don't want a 'fast food' Prometheus,,,but a satisfying movie meal..