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WTF - Has Ridley Scott sold out with Alien: Covenant!

WTF - Has Ridley Scott sold out with Alien: Covenant!

I might be called out as a black sheep for what I'm about to say, but I feel it has to be said... When it comes to Alien and Prometheus, Sir Ridley Scott is reverred by the fan base as almost omnipotent and infallible, despite obvious evidence to the contary, examples of which can be found in one scene from Alien - the Space Jockey scene...

  • In the wide, establishing shot he used his own children as doubles for Dallas, Kane and Lambert, in an attempt to make the "dead alien pilot" look bigger (25 feet according to the Alien saga podcast), yet for the remainder of the scene he uses the actual cast, reducing the scale of the dead alien pilot to around ten feet in height (see comparison below), yet fans still expect that Prometheus' Engineers to be subservient to a race of 25 feet tall Elephant men, similar in appearance to Hindu god Ganesh.
  • Dallas' incorrect ascertation that the creature "looks fossilized", which has been adopted by fans as gospel fact when in actuality it actually looks petrified or mummified. Had the Space Jockey been fossilized it would have been buried and crushed under layers of sedimentary rock. Many fans defend Dallas' statement instead of seeing that he misinterpreted what he saw - skeletal looking remains, which reminded him of the displays of Dinosaurs in museums, which are sourced from fossils dug out of the ground.
  • The final faux pas in this scene is one that fans thankfully do find hard to swallow - the egg chamber. From the dimensions shown in the movie its scale doesn't match either of the two scales shown in the above room (see first issue).

Compare the helmets against the Space Jockey head in the picture above, and then again for the picture below! 

Despite this and many other obvious issues in Alien (Lamberts change of footwear), the movie and its director have been placed high upon a pedestal. Then he returned for Prometheus and before the movie was released mindless fans were praising Scotts vision - a vision in which he set out to do a direct prequel to Alien with an Alien heavy script written by John Spaihts. Claiming the form of the Alien is no longer effective he employs Damon Lindelof to add ambiguity and mystery by tweaking Spaihts' script and replacing the Alien with an illogical black goo. But too much of Spaihts script remained, as did the obvious insertion of unused elements from the first movie. The result, while jaw dropping beautiful and magnificently shot is an inconsistent narrative and illogical nightmare, of which Lindelof got the blame for. But it was Ridley that removed the bulk of the final fight scene between Elizabth Shaw and the last Engineer, it was Ridley that reduced Fifields alien transfomation to that of an uber-zombie and it was Ridley whom surrounded the deep chaacters of Shaw and David with one-dimensional, functional only stereotypical archetypes with little to no purpose, character or common sense.

How likely are we to get any answers to Prometheus' questions in Alien: Covenant?

Yet among Alien fans the mention of James Cameron invites almost universal hatred and mockery, with claims that he reduced the creature to a mere insect, cannon fodder for his space marines. Yet no one will dare to bring attention to the table that Camerons movie is more cohesive than either of Ridleys attempts, with much more likeable characters and the best depiction of the creature seen yet seen on sceen, never mind the realisation on screen of the Queen Alien.

And now this...

As already reported, Noomi Rapace will not be returning for Alien: Covenant!

After buckling to the studio and marketing his movie as an Alien prequel rather than a Prometheus sequel, and after doing a complete 180 degree turn on his stance that the form of the Alien is no longer effective with reports that Covenant will feature many forms of the familar creatue, Ridley then removes the one driving force of Prometheus' narrative by removing Dr. Elizabeth Shaw and her quest for answers, which was the whole point wasn't it? Instead it seems Ridley is going to give us a version of Spaihts original script, likely relocating to the already crashed/landed derelict Juggernaut on Acheron LV-426 in a bid to explain how the "company" knew it was there; a movie he could have, and should have made in the fist place back in 2012! And Ridley has used this "sell-out" sequel to "cockblock" Neill Blomkamps proposed Alien sequel that got us all excited.

Dear Ridley Scott; either let James Cameron fix things, again, before you damage the whole series irrecoverably or let Blomkamp explore his ideas. You had your turn, move along!

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Replies

Lilly (Svanya)Jan-29-2016 10:17 PM

121

He's going back to what works.

felix9000Jan-29-2016 10:53 PM

0

  I'd never heard the nitpicking on Alien before. They're pretty minor points to what otherwise is a masterpiece of suspense cinema. Prometheus didn't do it for me, but that doesn't mean I want Cameron to do it, because Avatar sucked. Sometimes I wonder if giving a director, however good they may be, complete creative control isn't always the way to go. And with Scott, maybe he saw the flaws in Prometheus after the fact and has decided to give the fans what they want - akin to how Disney treated the latest SW outing.

  Aliens was incredibly entertaining, but you can't, in all fairness, compare it to Alien in anyway other than they used the same monster. I still watch the first more than any other, because I can ALWAYS find something I didn't notice before.

  Is he a sellout? Dude, if you work within the confines of Hollywood you're technically a sellout if you're using outside financing, which encompasses literally everything in the major studio system. This is about money first and foremost. We as fans get the big treat when art comes out of this process. I have my fingers crossed for the next one.

  I appreciate your feelings because you're a rabid Alien fan like me, but wait for it. I'd love to see Blomkampf's version too, because he's a super-nutso Alien fan like we are. But people other than he are calling the shots there, so his hands are tied. I'm concerned because he hasn't really impressed me since District 9, which I think he worked on for a long time. His last two outings were pretty weak. I didn't even finish watching Chappie, and Elysium didn't do it for me as it was too obvious.

 

  But at the end of the day we win because we get to catch Scott's work in the twilight of his career. He can't do this much longer.

ChrisJan-30-2016 6:45 AM

1457

I appreciate the frustration, but as I've stated in previous articles, I believe Alien: Covenant will fast- forward through events which will be explained in a later sequel. Shaw's search for answers should not be neglected and I think Ridley has a plan for her, just not with Covenant. Covenant is likely more so a means to get fans on track and hyped up for Bkomkamp's film as well as the later Prometheus sequels. Bkomkamp's Alien 5 isn't cancelled, just on hold, awaiting the response Covenant receives. We gotta be patient I feel. No film is perfect.

LoneJan-30-2016 8:08 AM

73

Removed by poster...

Something RealJan-30-2016 2:02 PM

130

The future is not certain. All we can do is wait to see what lies ahead. However, I am of the opinion that the sun will rise all the brighter. The world of science fiction cannot forever remain in the night  - the human drive to create and express is simply too great! :)

BigDaveJan-30-2016 3:25 PM

267

Chris reply is my one comment in a nutshell so i wont go into detail on that...

As for the rest where do i start.... so much to cover... (by the way great Topic)

I shall start with the Ridley Sell Out

We have to remember Alien Franchise belongs to Fox.... yes O'Bannon formed the basis for the Story, and Giger gave us the designs of the Alien Monster, the ship it was found on and the Pilot who was flying that ship at one point... And Ridley was the one who came in and put it all on screen.

But its Fox who owns the FRANCHISE.....   they can do what ever they want to the Franchise, and so we just dont know how much or less impact Ridley had with regards to Prometheus.  We can start with the Premise... the idea was that despite 3 more Alien movies, not one of them ever answered 3 Fundamental Questions.

1) Where did those Alien Eggs come from, how did they come to be?

2) Who was that Pilot, what a strange Race he seemed!

3) What connection does that Pilot have with said Alien Eggs?

This was what the Alien Prequel was going to answer, the basic idea of it would be how did that Pilot end up on LV-426 why was he carrying that Cargo, where was he intending to take it?  Second to that where did they obtain those Eggs, what role did they play in those Eggs, did they find them? create them? and what was they going to do with them..... and finally what was the role of this Pilot, where are the rest of his soecies and what are these Space Jockeys?

Alien: Engineers by Spaights was born.... Ridley would have had some ideas how much basis of these are his, or Foxes... but they would have had some broad strokes and then got Spaights in to then explore such ideas...  No body knew or knows for sure which ideas in Alien: Engineers are mainly Ridleys or Spaights... but we know Ridley had intended the Space Jockey to be a Space Suit worn by some Ancient Alien Race, who are involved in some kind of Galactic Conflict that required the use and maybe creation of some Horrific Bio-Weapon.  A Bio-Weapon that one of these Space Jockey beings was carrying in the Zeta 2 System before he had befell the vary Bio-Weapon he was carrying.

We dont know who started the idea, to have these Engineers as the Space Jockeys and how they had created life on Earth, and indeed are in the Franchise what Ancient Mankind interpreted as Gods.... but this was a interesting idea that was came up with..... it was one that was only part of such a Plot, the larger one was the connection they had with Terraforming LV-426 and using the Place to experiment on Alien Biology to create a vareity of Xenomorph related Organisms for the use most likely as a Bio-Weapon.... Alien Engineers did not cover the Xeno Origins either... it merely covered more the connection with the Xeno being experimented on and experiments that lead to the creation and storage of Evil Bio Weapons....

Ridley was pleased with the idea, and the movie was based on LV-426 and while it showed a Crashed Engineer Ship at the end... it in no way implied that this was the same as the Derelict...  It could have happened on a different area of the Moon.... and we are never shown the connection directly.... we cant rule out the Derelict being found by Engineers who then decide to take the Xeno Eggs and Re-Weaponize them.   The Plot was open.

Ridley had always felt before Alien: Engineers that LV-426 was Paradise, but Paradise as in a dark sense of the word.

Fox had sat down, and was very interested in the Draft, but they was even more interested in the Engineers and how they are portrayed as a Ancient Race who seed life across the Galaxy, as well as experimenting and created other Organisms... including the Xenomorph or related Bio-ology (prehapse?)  So Fox found  the Engineers are what the movie should be about and to set up a new Franchise... and the Xeno Bio-Weapon is only just a part of the greater Agenda and Culture....

Ridley must have felt that yes this is the way forwards, something new and different... and so Lindeloff was brought in to change parts of the Draft, and to concentrate more on the Engineers and tone down the Xenomorph connection.  As in part no soon as we are shown the Engineers are the Space Jockeys, we already know the Xenos purpose to a degree... just not how it came to be...

Now we end up with working on a sequel... and it seemed Ridley was really interested in exploring the Engineers and what else they get up to, the end of Prometheus and the movie set itself up for this... and to distance itself from the Xeno...  Prometheus laid clues and connections only it was vague and not so well done....  they wished to eventually cover this in more detail..... but it was the Engineers who was important...

But we get a U-Turn?  Maybe.... we have to remember FOX make the Decision, if they felt the mainstream of fans, which include Casual Fans, Sci-Fi Fans and Alien Fans... did not get Prometheus and maybe Prometheus and the angle they was going off with as far as to distance itself from Alien while then latter give us the answers.. if Fox felt that the Alien was the thing that mattered the most, and Ripley and this is what fans would want to go and see then thats what they would do...

Ridley has not sold out, but he has had to say YES SIR NO SIR..... If Ridley objected and said look the Xeno has been done to death, let Alien 5 deal with that i want to explore the Engineers and a interesting out of the box kind of way to connnect them to Gods and Fall of Gods and Rebelion.....   Well if Fox think that their is a risk that people would rather see Xenos and Ripley...  then thats what they would do...

They could just as easy get a new Director in and then proceed with the Xeno Orgins and then Engineer Connection (tone down the Ancient Gods, Paradise Lost Fallen Angels aspect) they could even get someone who will then pitch you know what.... Predators.. yes the Xeno was created as a Weapon ni a Predator vs Engineer War and Mankind was just created to be hosts to create a Army of Xenos... but who created the Xeno and who created the Goo?

They could go this route?  But by having Ridley onboard and him bieng willing to compremise a bit to what Fox thinks needs covered more to make more money.... which is Star Wars and the Beast has a few more round in it comments sugest....  then Ridley would rather have some input than none whats so ever.

BigDaveJan-30-2016 3:45 PM

267

So yes Ridley has to play by what Fox wants, otherwise Fox can go and do what ever they want with the Franchise, and Xeno Orgins  and come up with something that would make in years to come Ridley, Giger and O'Bannon all Turn in their Graves.

As far as problems with Prometheus... there are Many.... But we cant blame Lindeloff as yes his writting is a bit odd and goofy, and not as well thought out or coherent, but its not boring he has awsome ideas...  the Nano Scarabs that are now a Black Goo, is better... just it was not as coherent, if you look at how the Scarabs worked in Alien: Engineer and details of those scenes and outcome... apply this to the Black Goo, then the Black Goo Works... and it opens up a better explanation to it all... which i have covered before...

But still Lindeloffs Draft was not as Plot Hole, incoherent as the movie we saw in the Cinema or on DVD... from his Draft to shooting a lot of changes were made.... only Ridley or Fox can be blammed for this.

Another Problem is the Cut of the movie and the editing... we have not seen the Full Cut, and never will.. i have studied the movie in depth and suspected of cut scenes... then we saw leaked photos that confirmed scenes that well would have helped as far as theories to certain things... one being what happened to the Engineers Space Suit when he got to the Life Boat... (they did shoot him running across LV-223 without the need for it) this is a clue that then changes the way we look at the movie and why LV-223 had a atmosphere in the Temple Mound and on the Ships that Humans could breath.  There was many Scenes, that we never saw.. including one with the Engineer holding a Book in Vickers Suite... maybe the Bible? 

The Sacrifical Engineer Scene we never saw fully, as the Sacrifical Engineer had dialog with the Elder.  And then the evidence of so many other cut and re-aranged scenes that made more sense...  Remember the unacounted for Mercs gaurding Weylands Room when Shaw came into it after the C-Section and what happened to them.... well the movie was shot with Weyland being escorted out to the Rover, where Shaw was already onboard... just as Fifield Attacked....  and it was Shaw who ran over Fifield......

So yes the Edit and Cutting of the movie, is also a massive problem.....

Then we have the Final Problem, that may account for some clues that maybe should not have been... The Eye Worm is one... but i have a theory on that..... but other Problems could have arrose from...

ALIEN: ENGINEERS Production... production had began on Alien: Engineers prior to Lindeloffs re-write (and we could be seeing the same problems with Covenant)... Spaights Draft had Concept work for a lot that was included in the Final Movie, but these Concept Works were based on ALIEN: ENGINEERS....  read the draft and then the scenes as far as and especially Engineer Holograms... the Dead Engineer Bodys, the Chest Busted Cryo Pods.... all of these that in someway make working out what the Goo was doing a bit confusing and trying to connect the Hologram Scenes and Chest Busted Engineers... its not easy to work out a TRUE Fits all Theory.

Now look at those Scenes... then read Alien: Engineers and the Props fit Perfect with what Alien: Engineers Plot was doing.... so as Production was underway, then yes certain things may have already been far ahead as far as completed....  Especially the Dead Engineers, and Cryo Pods..... they was in Alien Engineer Concept and Draft and fitted perfect..... not if these Sets and Props was then used in Lindeloffs Draft... we are then left with more of a Mystery and Jigsaw peices that dont quite fit right....   which however gave us all hours and hours of debate as to how it all fits in... so many theories and counter theories that we could never all find  ONE FITS ALL theory, althought i had a good crack at it....

Lindeloff said this was his proudest part of Prometheus... the ambiguity because without it, there would be a lot less to discus... and he is correct... Spaights Draft was more Spoon Fed and not open to debate.

BigDaveJan-30-2016 4:10 PM

267

Onto the Production Errors in Alien.... Lamberts Shoes is just a Robin Hood men in Jeans... lol

But yes Ridley is prone to mistakes, because he likes everything real time, he likes to use Props and real Producion techniques and is not a fan of after effects and touch ups..... he likes to do many scenes in One Shot, and many scenes in his movies are made in the One Shot One Take Moment... its why the Chest Buster Scene worked so well.

Alien suffered the same flaws in some respects as Prometheus...

Case 1... Space Jockey, was supposed to be a 25-27 Feet Tall Alien Race in a Space Suit, the way the shot was done was supposed to create this illusion.... those with  Keen eyes will notice it did not... as for one this shot showed the Space Jockey to be about 20-21 Feet Tops....  a lot of people dont know how big 20 feet is... i have covered this before but if we take Warrick Davis... look how small he is...  even if we look at Star Wars and look at how small Wicket the Ewok seemed compared to Chewbacca... what we fail to see is actually only just over twice the height of the Ewok actually 2.13X the height!

Anyway it seems more to the eye and that was the idea of the Space Jockey being a illusion 25ft (was actually 20-21ft assuming Child Crew where upto 6ft tall)  but then the closer shot they used the real Actors and we lost that illusion by 25-30% thus if you are keen eyed you can see the Space Jockey looked about 15ft tall... the Prop was 16ft and so the Space Jockey was actually between 13-15 feet tall.

This is a error they made again with Prometheus.... Alien Engineers the idea was a 15ft Race that fits with the Space Jockey in Alien if we accept the closer shot.....   Paradise revised this down to 12ft tall, unsuited and taller when in the Space Jockey suits.

But Ridley failed to create the illusion and we ended up with supposed 10ft tall unsuited Engineers who only fooled us to seeing they are about 8ft tall if you worked it out.....  and infact the Last Engineer Scenes we could see he came across as about 7.5ft tall... average.. some shots looks taller other shown to be smaller, and its all to do with how the camera was used to try and portray a 10ft being....

In hindsight Lord of the Rings/Hobit Camer Trickery and Effects would have gave us a believable 12ft Race of Engineers who when in Space Jockey suits are 13ft and who the Space Jockey Grew out of his Chair....  (as far as the Fossil look goes, if you look closer he is more Bio-Mechanical like the Xeno than a Skeleton and so a Exo-Skeletal look to him... like if we came across a Dead Scorpion... infact their Technology is Bio-Mechanical and so its Part Organic and will wither away... and so the Space Jockey is more like a Dead Tree or Plant, compared to a Live One, rather than Skeletal remains.

===========

The other Problem is like Prometheus... and its already started Production... i.e Engineer Cryo Pods with dead Engineers and the other dead Engineers...... What we had in Alien was a Seperate Alien Egg Silo.. that Giger had as a Big Mound, like a Organic Version of his unused Dune concept for the Harkonnen Temple.   We have to remember they was going for more like the Star Beast and Giger had to design the Egg Silo, Compound and Derelict Ship.

But after Giger had began his drawings for the outside and inside of the Egg Silo.... he had then started the small scale model of the interior and Egg Chamber.... when due to Production Costs they had to cut the seperate Egg Silo and Temple idea..... and have the Egg Chamber as part of the ships Cargo..

This is where the inconsistancy arrises. As far as the size difference.... Then maybe the Engineers can have Time and Relative Dimension in invariably Technology as Dr Whos Tardis does..... hey maybe they can Time Travel too thats the one easy way solution to explain the Cargo Hold Size and how Covenant can link to Alien lol

 

Thoughts_DreamsFeb-01-2016 4:19 AM

13

I don't think that he has sold out, you got to compromise sometimes.

 

Having Spaight's script would probably have been better, at least it was kind of logical. Fifield should rather have been a monster than the zombie that we got but I think that Fox had something to do with it. We can not only blame Scott and Lindelof because there were probably more parts involved in this.

 

The space ship crashing and the Xenomorph. I think that this could be explained better. Prometheus gave us some clues about this when they smashed the Jaugernaut taking of and how the monster busted out in the end but it could be explained better.

 

The characters could have been done better. Shaw could have been worked out well. I actually think that the idea of a person mixing science and religion is an interesting thing which Shaw did but there were too much that wasn't good about that character. Eventually the way the movie was cut made the characters more lame than they could have been.

 

Removing Shaw: I don't think that she was very well written so I don't mind it. For P2 I think that thety must do the characters better and very much so the lead person because if they don't people might view P2 as they did with P1 (good landscapes average plot and characters). I think that it could be good to remove her or at least give her a smaller role.

 

I hope that they will use parts of Spaights script that were never used and have them in P2 that would be interesting.

 

Big Dave: You claim that Lindelof  was proud of his ambiguity in Prometheus, well there is a difference between ambuguity and confusion. A little ambiguity isn't bad but there is a thin line between ambiguity and a mess. I think that he was partially responsible for the mess part of Prometheus.

Necronom 4Feb-01-2016 4:37 AM

4

I agree with what Peter Vallance said. Can't really add much more to that without going into an angry rant.  i'll just leave it at that. 

BigDaveFeb-01-2016 9:55 AM

267

@ Thoughts_Dreams

I think what Lindeloff meant was that the way the movie was, meant that you could not really come up with any real theory or answers from the movie from the limited clues, and that no two people can really reach the same conclusion.  If the movie was more spoon fed like Spaights draft then there would be little left for people to discus as far as unanswered questions... so he has a point as there would be less debates on here had the movie spoon fed answers and had it been more coherence.

But in part that is a excuse and its a combination of failures that led to the movie that made little sense to the masses, but i think Lindeloff is the least to blame... Ridley has a more impact but ultimatelty we dont know who pulled the Strings and made the Final Call.... usually that would be Fox but Ridley could have played a big part too.

BigDaveFeb-01-2016 10:17 AM

267

As far as Spaights draft.... i actually was not keen on it, it had too much emphasis on the Xenomorph, and little on the Engineers but this could have been a Good idea, if we was to get all we need covering the Xenomorph to about 80% leaving the next movie to give us the very Origins and thus last 15-20% of what we yet to know about the Xeno and its Origin and connection to the Engineers...... Thus leaving the next movie to give us more on the Engineers and then leaving a 3rd movie to explore other aspects of the Engineers handy work within the Galaxy far away from the area of the Galaxy that Earth and Zeta 2 are set in and the Xenomorph.....

I think this is now what we are seeing with Alien: Covenant, they could be showing us the Xenomorph story more than Engineers so that the second part of the sequel to Alien: Covenant could then drop hints more on the Engineers allowing a 3rd Alien Prequel/Sequel to Prometheus to explore the Engineers in more depth.

The only big problem i had with Spaights draft and so far what maybe going on with the Alien: Prequels is the way they are trying to tie in the Xeno Origins and Space Jockey as far as Time Line...   As i felt the Xenomorph and Space Jockey were a event set THOUSANDS of years ago...

To be fair Spaights draft does not in a divinative way, sugest the Ship that Crashed at the end of his draft becomes the Derelict.... like wise Prometheus with the Juggernaught (some fans were led to think the Deacon becomes what gives rise to the Xeno still).

Likewise Alien: Covenant may also not try to in a divinative way show the Xeno Origin occurs after Prometheus and the year 2094........    It could show a way that it came to be in that time line, but also that originally it was created also a long time ago...

A way to look at this would be lets say we have a Scenerio of a World War 3 and 75% of the World is Destroyed, a group of Humans with no History of the World, start to begin civilization on a Island from Primordial Roots again.... eventually these Humans invent Hunting Spear, and then the Bow.....   in say the year 2200.... yet Mankind had invented it years before..... but these new Humans had no knowledge of this... and the Process of how they start a new dawn of civilization  thrown back to the Stone Age to a degree and create the first BOW is the same or similar process to how Ancient Man FIRST created it thousands of years ago.

Kind of the same as how Ancient Man with no connection to each other somehow managed to create the same kinds of Ancient Weapons and Tools, with no SUPPOSED contact with each other.....

So yes Covenant could show how the Xeno was created or could be created, but it does not have to be the FIRST time it was created....... if as Holloway says all you need is a Splice of DNA and a Petri Dish... then you can re-create a experiment of CREATION...

But this is just a assumption by me..... i dont know what ALIEN: COVENANT has in store for us.... but i still hold on to the Fact the Xeno and Derelict had been on LV-426 for thousands of years and somehow the Xeno and LV-223 experiments and backfiring thousands of years ago HAVE TO BE CONNECTED... 

Plus Ridley had said even before Prometheus that the Derelict had been there for thousands of years and after Prometheus went as far as to give us a ball park of between 1800-2200 years prior.    Micheal Biehns comments about Alien: Covenant taking place thousands of years ago is still very INTERESTING to me... as well as the Shooting locations that including New South Wales Mountain Ranges and Forests.  This does not sound like a movie set on Earth or LV-223 in present time to the movie i.e 2100+ or what Paradise is described as.

But maybe what Paradise, Earth or some other place would have been THOUSANDS of years or more ago!

BigDaveFeb-01-2016 10:24 AM

267

As far as Characters.... well i think Noomi Rappace is a good Actress, i dont see how Katherine Waterston is vastly better... it depends on how the Characters are Written.... and there was space to Evolve Shaws Character as we progressed....

The problem they now have is create a new Lead Character... and that dreaded Links to Ripley, still Haunts me... Ridleys comment about how Alien Franchise is about RIPLEY is even more worrying....

But they surely can not drop Shaw, and then create a new Lead in Daniels and have this new Character just play a role in the First of the NEW Alien Prequels.... they have to have her survive for at least the 2nd movie....  this then beggers the Questions of how is it going to connect to Alien, and will it include Engineers in the future?

If she does survive to the Next Movie.... then surely David.. or one of those (Davids) has to make it too, because if the Prometheus David 8 is one part of the Antagonist/Protagonist Dynamic and Daniels is the other it would be interesting to see how this ends and sets up the next movie... as the only way would be that the way the next movie ends will directly lead to in part the next movie afterwards.

Major NoobFeb-01-2016 4:27 PM

0

Huh. I couldn't disagree more. But to each his own, that's always been the story here.

 

I wish I could leave it at that, but of all the things stated here it's the 'cockblock' assertion that disturbs the most, and I have to address it.

 

First off, poor choice of words. Second, you clearly fall in the Cameron camp and that's cool, Aliens was a great movie, but there is no reason whatsoever to think Cameron could, or should fix anything, or that Blomkamp had a ghost of a story worth hanging the Alien name on.

 

I remember reading in the various articles about Ridley and Cameron joining forces for a sequel, that Cameron saw a role for Arnold Schwarzenegger. That alone was probably enough to put Ridley off the idea. If so, thank God. But everyone wants more testosterone and flash. I agree with Stephen Duncan; the mainstream dismay over the absence of the Morb, the Queen, and the same story we've seen over and over in every conceivable format for decades has apparently spooked the money men into steering away from the first original idea the Alien universe has seen in 35 years. Thanks, guys! But you venerate Blomkamp of all people because he wants to bring Ripley back?

 

The 'Resurrection' (ha ha, couldn't resist) of Ripley and, of all things, Hicks is not a story. It's so potentially absurd that it shouldn't be done at all, unless it was in the hands of a far, far more accomplished director. And even then it's in questionable taste. I doubt Cameron would touch it. Blomkamp shouldn't. Ridley won't. Only if he does can we consider calling him a sell out.

 

Ridley made no 'attempts'. There was no Alien before him. He orchestrated the talent and created the template for quality science fiction movies as we've come to think of them ever since. Prometheus was also not an attempt, it was a statement, and like many worthy artistic works, it's far from perfect. It's not about perfection. It's about impact, vision and daring. Prometheus' flaws are part of what makes it so compelling.

 

David asks Holloway 'How far are you willing to go, for your answers?' That moment, like many others, thrilled me. Because he was asking us. Prometheus was obviously never intended to be a stand alone film. You can practically hear Ridley and Co. rubbing their hands together with secret glee. Even with this new change in direction, I am too.

 

I know a lot of people are disappointed that Noomi won't be returning, but I can well imagine there's a solid reason for it. It sucks, but we all have to remember, as Ridley has often reminded us, that movie making is a commercial art, and his job is to get people to the theatre. Let's be thankful that when we go to see his movies, good or not, they are made with love, imagination, passion and his very singular vision.

 

I walked out on Star Wars tonight, not because I was offended, but because I was in the wrong screeneng room. I was there to see The Revenant, and it did not disappoint. I'll see The Force Awakens on video. I'll see Covenant in the theatre.

MonsterZeroFeb-01-2016 5:56 PM

2

"it was Ridley whom surrounded the deep chaacters of Shaw and David with one-dimensional, functional only stereotypical archetypes with little to no purpose, character or common sense."

It's a haunted house horror flick. Do you really want to learn about the teenagers before they are slashed?

"So...Fifield what are your hobbies?"

"Oh...woodworking...watching footy...some porn.."

As for one-dimensional characters, what about 'Alien':

What was Dallas's life story? motivation? 

How about Lambert? Was she married? Kids? What was she doing on the Nostromo?

Brett? What was his story?

Parker??

Kane???

Ripley?

Ash was the only one with a backstory.

I couldn't tell you a single thing about the crew of the Nostromo....Except female/male/race/height/smoker/non-smoker

It was a haunted house slasher flick with adults.

Prometheus is the same. The monsters are the stars.

ChrisFeb-01-2016 9:04 PM

1457

My, my this thread got very active. Me. Being a Scott fan over Cameron fan, I need to favor the opinion Major Noob shared above. Though a good opinion piece, Gavin, I do feel like there's more to this franchise than selling out. I, for one and more intrigued to see where Prometheus takes us, rather than going back to Ripley, Hicks and Newt for a one-off Alien film. At least with Covenant, we'll see something new. 

Monster Zero brings up a good point about character parallels between Alien and Prometheus as well. We don't need in depth back stories, one dimensional characters are fine, especially when they're the 'red shirts' of the film. The focus was clearly on Shaw and David, like it was on Ripley and the Alien in the original film. Aliens was fun and the characters were likeable, but for me, I got more out of Alien. But that's my opinion.

Major NoobFeb-02-2016 5:32 AM

0

Brilliant stirring of the pot, though. Thank you, Snorkelbottom. 

MonsterZeroFeb-02-2016 6:58 AM

2

@Major Noob

Yeah, the hives a buzzin'!

And don't get me started with the flat one dimensional 'jarhead' marines in Aliens! lol!

MonsterZeroFeb-02-2016 8:17 AM

2

Aliens origin? Space Jockey?

Let's look at the infamous scene from Star Wars Episode IV:

Luke Skywalker: No, my father didn't fight in the Clone Wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals; he felt he should've stayed here and not gotten involved.

Luke Skywalker: You fought in the Clone Wars?

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: Yes. I was once a Jedi knight, the same as your father.

Luke Skywalker: I wish I'd known him.

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: He was the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I understand that you've become quite a good pilot yourself.

[sorrowfully]

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: And he was a good friend.

 

Watching that scene as a 13 year old was mindblowing! I thought: "CLONE WARS!?! Now that's the movie I want to see! This one is alright...But CLONE WARS!! Did Han Solo fight in that?! Did Hans father(with his trusty manservant Bar Bar Jinks)?"

And a million teenage boys had the same fevered thought. A Clone wars movie would be sweet!

20 years of thinking about my clone wars movie! there was zero chance George Lucas could satisfy everyone.He was bonkers insane for trying.

Ridley is bonkers insane for attempting these prequels.

And...

I doubt there is a single Star Wars fan who envisioned 'Clone Wars' the same as George's final vision.

I doubt there is a single Alien fan who envisioned 'Prometheus' the same as Ridleys final vision. 

Alien: Covenant is going to be different to what we all expect.

LoneFeb-02-2016 9:43 AM

73

@Major Noob......great to read your thoughts once again!

I wish I had replied in such a manner, rather than the emotional tirade which I have since deleted!

Thank you! :)

 

LoneFeb-02-2016 10:14 AM

73

I have remained quiet on the subject of Alien 5, mainly because there has been no official confirmation on it, by Fox. So is it not rather ironic that many people are complaining that Ridley and his Alien/Prometheus sequels are holding up/sabotaging Blomkamp's alleged ALIEN 5?

No one seems to stop and consider that it may, in fact, be the other way round! That could go some way to explaining the apparent change of direction, story-wise and the time lapse between Prometheus and now!

Or...what if the proposed ALIEN 5 was just a marketing ploy? 

Haha Ridley may even have cooked the whole thing up with Weaver and Blomkamps assistance! 

Now, Alien 5 may yet happen, but a bunch of images on a twitter account and a few comments by some aging actors who are, shall we say, struggling, [and just for clarity, I am not alluding to Sigourney Weaver] doesn't make it a reality!

 

ChrisFeb-02-2016 11:22 AM

1457

It's great to have such polarized opinions, makes for great discussion, haha!

@Monster Zero, I wouldn't say Ridley os 'bonkers' for attempting these prequels. I will agree, Clone Wars did not live up to hype for me either, but I still think there's too much to be seen of the Prometheus series before we can write it off as a waste of time. Covenant is one of 4 prequels they have planned. Prometheus opened up the floodgates for expansion, Covenant will likely close some doors, but doors we didn't even know were open. These films are going to be one massive puzzle and will without a doubt still leave us with many, many questions to ponder for the next 20-30 years, before Fox revisits the series again, haha.

RuhaniyaFeb-02-2016 1:20 PM

0

"Cockblocked"! like Cameo's red jock cup? "Ba Ba Black Sheep have you any....WOLVES!", sorry had to pop a couple pills after reading that...Come on man...As if we were going to see Shaw journey to Paradise!  That's only for true believers.

ChrisFeb-08-2016 8:13 AM

1457

It's an opinion piece, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Doesn't make it stupid if you disagree with it. Try to be more constructive than that.

MolecularMar-24-2016 9:27 PM

0

Hello Gavin,

Thank you for a great topic! I wanted to address a few of your arguments. First, with respect to the Space Jockey scene- I know what you mean about scale, but think about it- you *really* have to be paying attention to catch that. Once you are made aware of the discrepancy, yeah it's easy to see- but when you first saw the scene, be honest- did you walk away thinking "hey that creature seems to have shrunk from just a moment ago" or did you simply experience a strong sense of lingering foreboding? And even in the scene with the adult actors, the Space Jockey comes off as large and extremely alien- "looks grown out of the chair". It's mouth is open, suggesting it died screaming. I mean, think about it- something killed this large, seemingly powerful creature from within- these puny humans are in serious danger here and it's not exactly clear from what. Visual imperfections aside, it's these little touches that make ALIEN so brilliant. Another thing: ALIEN takes its time but you never really mind; in fact, the first time I saw it I was so on edge I was glad it crawled along!

Originally, the egg chamber was going to be in a pyramid structure in another site on LV-426, but for budget reasons the Space Jockey and Egg Chamber scenes were "fused together" and this led to some of the scale problems you highlighted. I think Ridley did his best given the resources he had, and we need to remember the studio wanted to axe the Space Jockey scene altogether. Given these challenges, I think we can forgive Ridley these relatively minor imperfections. As for Prometheus... yeah, to this day I am conflicted. I think originally, the origin story was going to center on LV-426 or some other military installation and go from there. Its possible that at some point, Ridley expanded his thinking to include the Engineer homeworld and in the process saw an opportunity to expand on the core ideas surrounding the "where" and "why" of the Xenomorph. Personally, I don't like that he roped human origins and DNA and whatnot into the mix; it dilutes the "alienness" of it all (is these such a word?). I think ALIEN COVENANT will be an attempt to reverse this direction by explaining away what happened to Shaw, while concurrently focusing more on how the Engineers brought the Xeno into being. David will probably take what the Engineers started and add fuel to the fire- if for no other reason than to finish what Weyland started and give all of humanity the middle finger.

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Gavin

Written By Gavin
Published: 2016-01-29 22:06:56

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