Godzilla Movie

Godzilla '14 vs Godzilla '16

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Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-11-2015 1:46 AM

Hello there.

    With just under a year until the release of Toho's latest incarnation of Godzilla, I have been wondering just how excited everyone is with regards to the film. In general, how does your excitment for Godzilla (2016) compare to that which you felt for Godzilla (2014)? Are you more eager for this upcoming film than you were for G '14? Or is it the other way around? Additionally, for what reasons are you looking forward to the next installment of the King of the Monsters and how do they compare and contrast with those you held for the release of Edwards' Godzilla? As always, your thoughts and conjecture are most welcome, even if you choose to keep them to yourself. :)

57 Replies

NateZilla10000

MemberMothra LarvaeApr-11-2015 3:40 AM

Well, as we had a trailer to go off of and multiple pieces of concpet art for about 4 years, I would have to say I was more hyped for Godzilla 2014 than I am currently for 2016. I was/am excited for both films (Godzilla's Godzilla in my book), but as we had more info on Godzilla 2014 (basic outline of the look, the fact of additional monsters, the basic tone due to the teaser trailer, etc.), it was easier to get excited for it.

 

So far, all we know about Godzilla 2016 are the directors that signed up for it, Godzilla's going to be a bit bigger again, and that Godzilla will have 5 toes instead of 4 this time around. Not much there to get wrapped up in, you know?

 

I would have to wait until a trailer or something comes out for the new movie to give an honest opinion of which I was/am most excited for.

KoldWarKid62

MemberBaragonApr-11-2015 4:17 AM

Ditto pretty much to what NateZilla said. There was much more in the way of info and when I saw the leaked 2012 ComicCon teaser I was beyond ecstatic. The tone of that piece was perfect and captured the essence of what Godzilla was. I thought to myself, "these people get it." The movie ended up being very different from that teaser, but leading up to the release anticipation was high.

The co-directors for the '16 version are saying the right thing and the tone looks to be serious, and dark. One of them mentioned this being our "worst nightmare", which makes me very happy. At the very least, Godzilla is an anti-hero. He shouldn't be cute, funny, or heroic. He's the ruination of man. Can't wait to see more as info and pictures hopefully trickle in. At that point I'll get just as, if not moreso excited for this one, because Godzilla is back home.

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaApr-11-2015 5:07 AM

About on par. Although we had more to go off of visually with Godzilla '14, the people behind Godzilla '16 are more exciting filmmakers. It balances out.

Because the timetable of Japanese productions are different from Hollywood, the timetable doesn't exactly match up, nor does the hype. (There are no franchise conventions in Japan. Less editorials about movies, etc.) It's a cultural divide. But ultimately I'm equally excited about the prospects like I was when Godzilla 2000 had been announced.

And Koldwar, I don't think it accurate for any fan to say what Godzilla should or should not be. Godzilla is many things at this point and it has worked. I understand your preference is for "grimdarkserious" but Godzilla's character has not shown more versatility than that to proudly take up varied titles. I'm excited about Anno and Hideaki's direction as well. But I wouldn't call it the defining trait of the character.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

dinoboy22

MemberMothra LarvaeApr-11-2015 6:06 AM

im pretty hyped for the new movie especialy since godzillas gonna be the big nasty monster that i originally wanted for 14 but like others have said we dont have enough footage or info to really get the hype train going

Durp004

MemberBaragonApr-11-2015 7:07 AM

Hmm I'm not sure when I saw the comic con leak from 2012 I was so excited for G2014, but most of the things I've seen about the upcoming 2016 movie seem promising. Since I'm not sure how I feel about Hideaki Anno being the director and writer for the upcoming movie I'll say G2014 just barely

Durp004

MemberBaragonApr-11-2015 7:07 AM

Hmm I'm not sure when I saw the comic con leak from 2012 I was so excited for G2014, but most of the things I've seen about the upcoming 2016 movie seem promising. Since I'm not sure how I feel about Hideaki Anno being the director and writer for the upcoming movie I'll say G2014 just barely

KoldWarKid62

MemberBaragonApr-11-2015 8:06 AM

@GMan - It's absolutely my/or any fan's right to say what Godzilla is/should be to them. We own it to/for ourselves. For some, he's scary, for others, he's a defender of earth. What it ultimately ends up being is the indiv. filmmakers vision. I've enjoyed several versions of the character, but for me Godzilla is a harbinger; he punishes man for his hubris. But that's just my vision. It's not up to you or anyone else to tell me what I should want him to be. You're right in that it has not been the defining trait of the character. Through almost 30 films he hasn't been, but it's the version I identify with and would love to see. That's Godzilla for me. I'm not trying to say everyone else should like the same version; we don't. We've established that, and I respect that. Again, just my preference for the character, not what all of you should like.

@Durp - The ComicCon footage set the tone for me. It was 1954 updated. It was ominous, dark, scary, and when the big guy appeared through the debris and roared, I was sold. That didn't end up being the film we got.

As a kid, I loved the character any way I could get him. As I got older I just started preferring a scarier Godzilla. If a giant monster is tearing ass through your city, it should be scary. People are going to die. I love the movie Cloverfield, because it brings home the s@#$storm that a giant monster in a crowded city would be.

Jamaal

MemberMothra LarvaeApr-11-2015 11:55 AM

I'm looking forward to this film as much as I did the Legendary Godzilla, but in a diffrent way.

With Gareth Edwards' film I was anticipating, to some degree, an 'Americanization' of the character so that he could have the broad appeal necessary to be financially successful. The result was a film that was not quite what we were led to expect from the Comi-Con footage,the trailers, etc. To me, Godzilla 2014 was a success,and it was entertaining. It is Godzilla. But it was not as dark as I thought it would be. It's an action movie that had to have a happy ending and charcters that could be sutiable as action figures. And, it did. while I believe that Gareth Edwards, Thomas Tull, et. al., 'get it,' some homogenization was inevitable to compete in the summer blockbuster movie market.

With Toho Godzilla 2016, I anticipate a very dark, Japanese, tokusatsu-rooted film that is distinct in its look, feel and manner of storytelling. At least I hope so. I had concerns inthe wake of the initial announcement, that Toho might attempt to 'ape' the American made film. Others here, as well as myself felt that this would be a mistake. With the choice of directors, I feel assured that we will get a dark, serious and distinctly Japanese film, combining traditional, practical effects with digital enhancement. With Anno and Higuchi helming this, and in light of their love for, and devotion to, the tokusatsu tradition, I feel confidant that we will see a visually spectacular and narratively compelling Godzilla film. I want it to distinguish itself from the Legendary film, whose sequel, by the way, I am looking forward to. But, with Godzilla being so identified with Japan, and because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I have an anticipation for a Japanese-made Godzilla that is different from that involving an American made film. 

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-11-2015 12:22 PM

I understand what each of you has said! Indeed, the general consensus is that we do not yet have enough information to get really excited; however, there is just enough material to provide a great deal of curiosity! Personally, I am fairly ecstatic over the concept of a new Godzilla from Toho - especially now that we have been assured that this iteration is going to be terrifying! I very much enjoy Godzilla as a force of nightmarish destruction we created! :)

KoldWarKid62

MemberBaragonApr-11-2015 2:02 PM

@Something Real - Great topic, btw. As always, you are calming voice in the storm!

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-11-2015 4:41 PM

KOLDWARKID62 -Thank you ever so much for your kind words! They mean a great deal! :)

GuateGojira

MemberMothra LarvaeApr-11-2015 7:56 PM

Like many stated here, there is a diferent story. For Godzilla 2014, we had many promotional stuff, but for Godzilla 2016, there is comparatively nothing.

But I think that it is too "early" now, let's wait a little more.

Finally, I liked the "hero" Godzilla 2014 (indirecty, at the end), but I would also like a "anti-hero" in Godzilla 2016. Let's see what happen, the only thing that I would not like is the use of "suits" again. It is just my particular opinion, but I think that Godzilla has evolved very well to the CGI and they should continue like that.

 

Greetings to all.

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-11-2015 8:01 PM

GUATEGOJIRA - I completely understand and respect your outlook! :)

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaApr-11-2015 8:10 PM

"the only thing that I would not like is the use of "suits" again."

With Higuchi at the helm I think suits is a foregone conclusion. I think there's still more to do with the traditional Japanese effects and would hate it to go away forever-- especially in the franchise that birthed it for Japan.

CG is good if you like the same ole techniques over and over and over, but I'm far more excited at the prospect of a new look. I must say, as interested as I am in Avengers: Age of Ultron and Jurassic World, the visual effects aspect of those movies is the last reason I'm going to see them. It's just more CG thrown against the screen.

Visual feasts like the Attack on Titan movies interest me far, far more from an effects standpoint.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-11-2015 9:17 PM

GMAN2887 - I could not agree more with that sentiment! CGI, in my opinion, lacks a certain visual "weight" that is evidenced by suits, animatronics and practical special effects. I absolutely love the Jurassic Park movies; however, the CGI does not provide the same art and visual appeal for me as that held by Tokusatsu and other similar forms of movie magic! :)

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaApr-11-2015 10:22 PM

Agreed. It's not that I don't see the value in CGI, but it's made movies visually boring. No one wants to take risks with it in Hollywood, they just want it to look as "real" as possible. People seem to forget that film is an art form and different style effects need to be welcomed outside of splashing CG all over the canvas. It's become mundane.

Now I understand realism is needed in some cases, but not all. And in other cases a little stlye over realism would be welcomed. But the last time I was really visually wowed by CG was in 1993, seeing Jurassic Park in theaters. After that... it became a fad. A go-to option for everything.

I can't wait to see the unique look and effects Higuchi brings to Godzilla. Finally.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-11-2015 10:33 PM

GMAN2887 - You are definately speaking my language! Higuchi will (from what I have seen) bring a certain amount of visual drama from which a Godzilla film will benefit immensely! After seeing the teaser images for the live action Attack on Titan, I am convinced Toho have the right individuals for the monumental job of bringing us fans a new vision of Godzilla! I do not need Godzilla to look ultra real; I just need him to look like Godzilla and evoke the same sense of majesty and dread he typically commands! :)

Jamaal

MemberMothra LarvaeApr-12-2015 3:12 PM

I want a Japanese Godzilla film that looks Japanese, and distinctly so. That means production arising out of the tokusatsu tradition. There is no better person for this film, effects-wise, than Shinji Higuchi. He has demonstrated that he can combine practical and digital effects with beautiful results. Plus, like Hideaki Anno, he's a student and fan of this visually amazing art form. "Paying respect to the master," is what he said. It's this sentiment, spirit and frame of mind that will, God willing, be as instrumental to the realization of the visual effects, as his talent and gifts as a filmmaker.

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-12-2015 4:19 PM

JAMAAL - I definately understand your standpoint and agree with it whole-heartedly! :)

GuateGojira

MemberMothra LarvaeApr-12-2015 8:29 PM

Ok, I also respect your opinions. :o)

 

However, we most be a little more real here. Most people, that are not fans (like us) of the old Godzilla movies, will not take "too seriously" a movie with suitmation than one with CGI and personaly, the new Godzilla 2014 was perfect for me and I would like to conserve it like that (I am talking about Godzilla itself, not the movie itself ;o) ).

 

I don't think that the CGI is "empty" or "boring", for the contrary, is far more realistic that a suit and forced perspective. The monsters in Pacific Rim were incredible and King Kong of 2005 was so good that even provoqued emotions, like a real actor! Suitmation was excelent in the past, but with new technology, I think that CGI "PLUS" a good story, is the key for a good Kaiju movie. But again, it is just my opinion for a little more modern Godzilla fan. If you don't like it, I will respect it. :o)

 

But, let see what happen, as long as the story would be good, I think that the "animation" of the kaijus, independently of the method, will be just an "add".

 

By the way, no one have asked IF there is going to be other monsters in the movie. That will be an interesting point to discuss or to hypotesize.

 

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-12-2015 8:51 PM

GUATEGOJIRA - You are extremely dedicated to your viewpoint! I find that to be an exceptionally valuable quality! I can certainly understand that which you are extolling; CGI, in this day and age, is definately the most accepted modus operandi of effects-heavy films. I am certainly not in any way opposed to computer generated imagery as a means to bring interesting visuals to life - not by a long shot! However, I feel (and this is simply my viewpoint) that practical effects like suitmation bring something, hmm, visceral to a film. There is a certain quality that actual, physical effects have - a weight - that CGI (once again, in my opinion) is as of yet incapable of imitating. There is life to actual material. Of course, I will in no way contest thatPeter Jackson's King Kong was not moving! I wept at that film's ending - and spilled a Sprite on my favorite skirt (it was an awful night)! :)

GuateGojira

MemberMothra LarvaeApr-12-2015 9:16 PM

The thing is, from my point of view, that the suitmation most look "real" and lets be sincere, some Godzilla suits don't make that. They most focus in him like a "real" animal, with the back scales attached to the body skeleton and not just randomly paste to the back. That, and better efects in the face, will be excelent to add realism to a new suit.

 

Check this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAzQr3Ml0UI#t=260

 

Those raptors were amazing! If they make a suit like this, focused in perfection and real nature, then suitmation will be great again. Stan Winston is the best evidence of that. Let's hope that, if the new Godzilla movie use suitmation, that Godzilla and the new monster (s?) will be like this old-school-perfect raptors. :o)

 

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-12-2015 9:54 PM

GUATEGOJIRA - That was an incredible suit! I very much enjoyed the way in which the animatronics and manually-controlled elements came togther to produce a very life-like quality in the raptor! I would definately be pleased to see similar effects applied to Godzilla! With that being said (and this might sound silly), I do not necessarily need Godzilla to look hyper-realistic; I just need him to look like Godzilla. I am uncertain of how to explain what I feel with regards to Godzilla's appearance. Perhaps it is a love for the Tokusatsu art form - who knows? Regardless, I very much enjoyed the video you shared! It was quite neat! :)

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaApr-12-2015 10:15 PM

Guategojira,
Like many western fans, you're really missing the mark about the effects in the Godzilla series. Realism was largely not the goal. Style was. Here's a favorite quote of mine from August Ragone's book, Eiji Tsuburaya: Master of Monsters:

"Realism is not the point. It's about style. It's about mood." - Shiro Sano

You need to understand that the new Godzilla '16 is a Japanese movie and the Japanese have an understanding and respect for the art of tokusatsu. It is part of their culture and part of their cinema history. The "most people" you speak of, must not be Japanese, because they know how to take it seriously or at least take it appropriately for what it aims to be.

Will western audiences not understand this? No, but that's because we western audiences have been unfortunately conditioned to believe CGI and realism is the "correct" way to go about visual effects. Think for a moment: Perhaps in other countries "realism" is considered poor artform and techniques that resemble toku are admired more. It might be hard for some to wrap their heads around, but westerners really need to stop thinking that "realism" = universally better. That is far from the case.

Lets bring it back to Hollywood and put it another way. Are the effects in 300 realistic? It's CG heavy, but does it look like something that actually exists in reality? How about Kill Bill Vol. 1 and 2. Those films feature zero CGI and are purposefully using over-the-top practical effects. What about Dick Tracey from back in the day? Does that movie look realistic? No. Those movies were going for a specific look that wasn't about realism. Godzilla isn't either. Godzilla is the grandfather of a Japanese cinema artform that was the opposite of realism and to completely replace it with CG for all time is to abandon part of what makes Godzilla. It pulls him out of the genre.

To paraphrase myself again, in Japan Godzilla is the "king" of an entire sub-genre of special effects cinema going from Godzilla '54 to Ultraman in 1966 to Gamera 3: The Revenge of Irys in 1999 and Attack on Titan in 2015. The 2014 Godzilla is merely a pauper in the Hollywood machine playing in a sandbox ruled by Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park. He's an old cog of things already done before. In America Godzilla is like Gamera or Ultraman to the proverbial Jurassic Park.

Again. It's about a look, a feel and a style. Not realism. Things can still be serious and dark without looking realistic. Afterall, look at Sin City.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-12-2015 10:31 PM

GMAN2887 - I will definately have to give the book you have mentioned a read! If I may ask, is it commonly available, or is it a hard-to-come-by publication? :)

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaApr-12-2015 10:54 PM

Something Real,
It was recently re-released in paperback. But books in this genre typically don't stay easy to find for long. I'd gun for it while it's out:

Eiji Tsuburaya: Master of Monsters

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-12-2015 11:05 PM

GMAN2887 - Oh, thank you so very much! I will definately take the opportunity to get a copy! Thank you for the link! :)

KoldWarKid62

MemberBaragonApr-13-2015 6:45 AM

Tsuburaya originally wanted to use stop-motion animation to bring Godzilla to life, but it was time and cost prohibitive (he estimated 7 years), and deemed out of the question. Think aboiut how different that would have been.

Being a huge fan of O'Brien and Harryhausen myself, that form of effect also has a certain and unique style to it.
I'm not particularly married to any one way of bringing Godzilla to life; whatever works really. I could enjoy whatever technique and combination the filmmakers decide on. For me, it's the end product. I am happy he's home. I think that's where he belongs.

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaApr-13-2015 9:13 AM

^Indeed, but this is why Tsuburaya is an unsung genius. Time constraints on him proved that instead of competing with Hollywood (via stop motion) he could create his own visual look that went the other direction. It was actually brilliant and it worked to help bring Japanese cinema back to life.

Godzilla being brought to life through traditional toku is part of why bringing him home is so good. He is Japan's, but toku is his.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Something Real

MemberGodzillaApr-13-2015 1:05 PM

GMAN2887 and KOLDWARKID62 - Is it true that Harryhausen actually verbally bashed Tsuburaya for using what he felt were "cheap" hollywood shortcuts - particulalry the Godzilla suit? I have heard this stated before but I am interested in having it validated by the two of you. After all, I happen to think that you are both exceptional authorities on the subject! :)

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