Alien Movie Universe

Prometheus Revisited

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Dave_b

MemberOvomorphMar-18-2015 2:24 PM

I am looking forward to Prometheus 2....now.  After recently watching the Alien Trilogy followed by Prometheus, I was surprised at how much better Prometheus seemed.  Prometheus is truly the thinking mans Alien film...full of subtlety and big ideas.  Perhaps we are simply an Alien Bioweapons Facility for the Engineers to replenish their religous arsenal.  The horror of the concepts in Prometheus far outweigh anything else in Alien canon.  Weyland Yutani would be proud of the Engineers!

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BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-19-2015 9:13 AM

Yep it opens up a world of posibilities...

Does seem that the route they was going to take as far as creating life on Earth as Gods, and visiting us and being responsible for our evolution not only Genetically but Technologically, is something they could be toning down and stepping away from.

To give us a more simple yet sinister outcome, quite what that would be? We will have to wait untill Paradise!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

123Engineer

MemberFacehuggerMar-19-2015 10:40 AM

Genetically we have the same DNA like the engineers. But what gives them the power to be nearly immortal? Is it another lifeform or have they just evolved their medicine.^^ I think that is one of the interesting things I'd like to see in the sequel. 

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-19-2015 12:38 PM

I think its not beyond the realms of being just so advanced....

We did see the Elders and if they are just older versions of the Engineers, then it shows our Engineers Age just at a slower rate, but we dont know for sure a few things.

1) If they go through stages of being born i.e Baby to Child to Adult.

2) If they are grown like Clones like say in the 6th day movie.

3) And that the Engineers are clones of the Elders.

But this was before they made changes, as now there may be no such thing as the Elders, well as far as them apearing old and frail compared to the younger Engineers.

But ignoring that lot, like i said above we cant rule out it being a case of being Scientifically more advanced.

Take Mankind, look at the leaps we have made over the last 100 years never mind the last 50 or 25 and if we really devoted all our time and resources to stem cell research and other genetic work, we could in effect  near rule out the potential to get rid of many defects and diseases.

This is something we could do for sure within the next 10-15 years as far as inherited problems, and ones that are effected by Faulty Genomes etc.

Then we have things like naturally Aging of our Organs and skin,  sometimes our diets impact our health and i am sure we are at the level now to use supliments instead of Food that provide the Energy and Protiens we need without none of the harmful effects.

Both the above would allow for mankind to live a lot longer, and we could see those who are Engineered as above and fed as above, they would live Natural Lives of what 100 years easy...

As far as Organs naturally aging etc, well even those born with the best Genes, who have best diets and expercise will Age, and will not live beyond 120 years old.

However who knows in years time if we can mange to do something or even if its create using Genetic Manipulation a Human who's Organs will Age a lot less...

This while theory is not something that cant be ruled out, in what hundreds of years time, but in all fairness if we was to ever become kind of more imortal the way i think we would do it would be to create clone bodies that age a lot less,  clones like in the 6th day and then when one body starts to get too old, we just transfer our brains data to the new body.

This in theory is the most likely way Mankind can become kind of immortal in hundreds of years, i would say in 250 years we should be able to do that for sure..

I am not sure about having boddies that dont age at all....

This is all theory, and Prometheus is Sci Fi, and so its not impossible within the realms of Sci Fi that our Engineers had advanced so far that they could achieve such things, a kind of thinking from a Sci Fi point of view could Mankind evolve technologically wise in the medical and genetic engineering feild in say 4000 years time to be able to appear to be Immortal to a degree.

Never mind in 100'000 years or a Million...

so yes there could be some interesting history behind the Engineers, and not just a case that they are Godlike Humanoids who live for a unlimited number of years or who dont Age like say Vampires dont etc.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-19-2015 1:03 PM

As far as how Prometheus and Alien Franchise fits, and by that using on screen details, it will depend down to what versions of the movies you see, and if we throw out some of the extra stuff like deleted scenes.

To me many of these scenes, are vital parts of the puzzle, they are peices that you can add to the Jigsaw to make some sense of it all.. and as such peices that if we dont include them can leave us with a Jigsaw that maybe does not fit as well as it does once the other parts are used.

Right now Prometheus is something that is hard to figure,  Aliens went on after Alien to explore and evolve some things that then kind of made some sense to some of the stuff behind Alien, the other movies to a degree futher added to this...  and i dont mean how good they are i just mean as far as connection to the Organism etc.

The only thing that we had little or no clues was the Space Jockey and this is what Prometheus was mainly supposed to adress, and by that not that actual Space Jockey that was sitting on LV 426 but just in general his race, their purpose and any connection to why they had that cargo.

Prometheus opened new doors, ventured in some interesting ideas, explored some of the mystrey but in a vague way and gave us more questions than answers.

Trying to peice it all together is not easy and no one can be 100% sure if their interpretations are correct...

We wont know if anyone is correct until and if... Prometheus part 2 and 3 if they make one are released, and even if they dont answer everything i am sure once they are out then we can finally peice together the Jigsaw, well there would be enough clues to be shown down a path they are intending..

Now wether that makes sense or not is another matter that time will tell.

I will do a post, as i was going to start a thread about how Prometheus is sending us down a kind of path, but i will just post it on this topic as it is related.

It will be a bit of a write up where i will adress where i think Fox and Ridley are trying to show and send us as opposed to maybe the Original idea or what the clues seem to be showing us.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

123Engineer

MemberFacehuggerMar-19-2015 1:08 PM

Interesting comment!^^ I haven't seen the '6th Day', but I will definitely check it out. You mentioned good points. Like David said: 'Mortal after all.' The race of the Engineers seems to be just more evolved human race. The mysteries behind them is science we do not understand yet. So Shaw and David might be surprised what they are capable of. I think that David will misuse their technology for his own purposes. 

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-19-2015 1:37 PM

The 6th day is actually not a bad movie as far as Arnold Schwarzenegger goes, i do not want to spoil it to much but its about cloning but where its illegal to clone a Human but not a Pet, so if you pet dies you can have it cloned and so the kids wont notice the family pet is dead.

But the plot then goes the route that the inventor of this Technology actually uses it on himself and some certain celebrities i.e a life insurance for the rich and famous.

Plot wise its good plot and good execution and one of the better post Terminator 2 Arnie movies out there.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

CarynParnall

MemberOvomorphMar-20-2015 9:03 AM

@BigDave Some super rich people started cloning their pets already in the real world.  The children may not be able to tell the difference, but the buyer often claims that the cloned pet behaves rather differently.  This is because the ones we've created so far lack the memory & experience that the animal had when it was alive. 

The new pet looks identical to the animal that was lost, however, they just aren't the same..  The cloned pets don't have the same minds (like the clones in 6th day do), which creeps the owners out because they won't act the exact same way.  The corporate execs received many complaints that the replacement pets had no souls.

A weird pattern emerged where the new pet came to be perceived as evil and soulless by the buyers (although not really by the children).  Their behaviour was close enough to trick the children into believing the beloved family pet was still alive, which made them seem even more evil.

Maybe Weyland started genetically engineering pets (like the snakes in Bladerunner).  What if Jonesy was a genetically engineered cat? Lol.  Maybe Weyland's dog, and a backup copy of Miss Vickers, can be re-created.  Perhaps Miss Vickers was actually created in a lab.  Cats & dogs are almost extinct by the time of ALIENS according to the novels ;)

Ripley lost aspects of herself when she was Resurrected.  The clone lost memory, was taught to speak english again, couldn't remember Newt (except in dreams).  Ripley 8's personality changed & she became colder.  Can we even call her Ripley?  She was viewed as a monster initially. Does Ripley 8 even have a soul?  Call might think about those things, because she was created by androids who possess free thought

@Dave_b  I totally agree that there are many subtle layers to Prometheus.  There's a lot buried beneath the surface.  When you look at Prometheus in context with all the other Alien films, it starts to make more sense.  We see visual references to ALIENS and even Resurrection.  In a way, Prometheus acts as the first link in the chain to the whole series/sequence of events.  IMO it's not just a prequel to Alien, it doesn't need to lead directly to Alien; and is in fact describing a parallel sequence of events, a parallel story (as Ridley hinted).  When the Spaights script was changed, they made the connections much less straight forward.  Gods don't build in straight lines, only mortals do. 

I think the reason Paradise has been through so many script revisions is that the creators don't want it to be too straight forward. Prometheus lays out the data and forces us to think about the possible connections ourselves.  I tend to agree that it's a thinking man's Alien. They don't want to give us the answers, they want to make us look for them.  It's much like a puzzle, but we've only been given pieces of the big picture.

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-21-2015 7:45 AM

Yeah Caryn... thats kind of what i was getting at that to actually clone is something we can do, and that if we put more research into it, then its possible to do so with Humans.

And it could be being done now.. its not impossible and certainly in years to come it wont be...

I am not sure as far as the level of clonning we see in The 6th Day...

I assume that clones would start out just as a none cloned Embryo, and so i am not 100% sure we have reached a level where they can clone a animal or person say like myself and there you go, there is a instant clone of me.... but instead there is a new born baby that is the same as i was when i was born and would grow up to be the same as me.

Then again maybe Science has got that far? if it has they will not admit to such a thing as its PLAYING GOD

But certainly as far as the context of this post goes, can we really know how far we can evolve as far as Science and Genetics within 100 years, 500 years let alone thousands of years..

I do fear we would not get to that level mind in 500 years or thousands, i do think there is more chance Mankind could be destroyed by then....  And i dont mean by hands of a event like natural  catastrophe....

But more like Science.... be that diseases we have created by mistake or purpose...

But a bigger threat i think is our Science Evolution to AI... in 500 years time for sure a Terminator situation could be Possible...

Where our computers and machines evolve to a point that its AI is like ours and they then see that there is no need for Mankind..

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

CarynParnall

MemberOvomorphMar-22-2015 1:05 AM

The phrase 'playing god' holds a lot of significance to me.  I'm glad you used it, because that's what we usually say when scientists go too far.

Weyland corp is all about science going too far, playing god etc.  "We are the gods now". Peter Weyland started acting like a god when he created androids out of clay.  That's pretty much what the humans were doing when Ripley was resurrected: they were playing god.

I feel like there's religious symbolism in Alien 3 and Resurrection. Ripley sacrifices herself for humanity when she dives cruciform into the lava. She's subsequently resurrected. It's the idea of playing or acting like a god (but not actually being one) I find interesting. The prisoners were believers, so was Call in the special edition of Resurrection.

This idea of play..  Why do we need to play?  Why do we need to emulate & simulate?  Why do we need to follow the lead of their image? Maybe I'm looking into things too deeply. Something troubles me about the way David styles himself after T.E. Lawrence.  We create androids in our image, then David decides to act like Lawrence of Arabia. He's almost playing a role, portraying himself certain ways, pretending. He quotes from Lawrence of Arabia when he says "the trick is not minding". David appropriates some of our cultural symbols for his own purposes.

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